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Old 09-02-2013, 08:07 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,321,515 times
Reputation: 27718

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
I agree with this statement but I don't get why he didn't tell me in time for spring recruiting. He waited until AFTER the prime hiring season to tell me. That makes no sense. I should have been told in March and then given their blessing to take off and go to the job fairs. As things are, I had about 5 week window to find another job in teaching if it is true that districts don't take each other's teachers after July 1st. That was not enough time.
You've been posting here for nearly a year about how you are either leaving or getting fired.

What do you mean "you should have been told in March" ?
You knew you were in a bad situation. Why didn't you take the initiative and apply for jobs in March for the next school year ?

You got yourself 10 months to find another job.
Stop playing victim and go look for a job.
It may not be teaching and it may not be engineering..something you need to seriously consider.

Being on unemployment will make your job hunting a lot harder IMHO because no one wants to hire someone who is on UE and can't find a job.

 
Old 09-02-2013, 08:24 AM
 
2,189 posts, read 2,598,869 times
Reputation: 3736
good luck hope all works out well for you ...
 
Old 09-02-2013, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,466,787 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
You've been posting here for nearly a year about how you are either leaving or getting fired.

What do you mean "you should have been told in March" ?
You knew you were in a bad situation. Why didn't you take the initiative and apply for jobs in March for the next school year ?

You got yourself 10 months to find another job.
Stop playing victim and go look for a job.
It may not be teaching and it may not be engineering..something you need to seriously consider.

Being on unemployment will make your job hunting a lot harder IMHO because no one wants to hire someone who is on UE and can't find a job.
Are you being deliberately obtuse? I've stated over and over that I am looking for another job. I have been since June. I stepped up my game in July and I'm stepping it up again by hiring a recruiter in September. It's do or die time. However, it's going to be a rough year if I don't find something else. That's just reality.

Michigan has a glut of STEM teachers. There are a dozen to a dozen dozen applying for every position (I'm not kidding. The last math position I applied for had over 150 applicants.). With denial of tenure on the plate in teaching, 10 months may not be enough time to find a job. With my engineering experience being old, 10 months may not be enough time to find a job. It's not like I can just crap a new job. I wish I could.

If the intent of telling me I will not tenure was to get me to quit, they should have told me BEFORE the prime hiring season for this year not after it. It's like they told me to get me to quit but the timing left me only a small window to find another job given it's taboo to take another district's teacher after July 1st. If they had told me in March, I could have taken time off and gone to the job fairs without denial of tenure being an issue because I would have been looking long enough before my tenure year (5th year in Michigan). Next year, it's obvious I'm trying to find something to avoid a denial of tenure situation as I will be looking for a new job in what would have been my tenure year. They also had the option of not offering me a job which would have left me a free agent during the fall mini hiring season when schools are in an emergency situation to fill positions and protected me financially because I would have been eligible for UI in June. If I quit, as so many think I should have, I would have gotten nothing until December. We're talking $9100 here that I would have drawn if they had just not called me back from lay off. I don't know about you but that's the difference between being able to make it and not for me. Next year will be impossible because of the denial of tenure situation. My best bet is getting back into engineering but who knows when opportunity will knock there. I have friends who are going on 2 years looking and not finding with more recent experience than I have. I'm not in a pretty place by any means. Looking for a job isn't the issue. It's finding one.
 
Old 09-02-2013, 08:45 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,466,787 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by cleasach View Post
I really have to wonder why you post questions like this. As soon as someone answers you, you go off on tangents about how wrong their opinion is and that you have it all figured out. Why ask then? You get very harsh with people that are only trying to help you think things through. It's not easy to think clearly when you are in an angry state of mind so people were just trying to point out things that you may not have considered due to your emotional state about the situation. Then you start with the "I know a jury will believe me," "I know it will be a jury trial" "I know......"

If you already know how a situation will play out from start to finish, then why pose a question?
Because I think it's an interesting dilemma. It's out of the norm. So the question is do normal rules apply? Obviously, I don't think they do and I'm arguing my case. You're free to argue yours. That's what makes the debate fun.

I didn't post the question so people will tell me what I will do. I know what I will do. I posed the question for discussion. I know that I will do whatever I have to to protect my family. Period. If that means I have to walk into the principals office and quit on the spot in 2 months to take a job in engineer, that's what I'll do. I do not owe them sacrificing my career and finances for their convenience under the circumstances. IMO, I owe them nothing except to do the job they pay me to do as long as I do it. There are, however, two sides to this and I think it makes interesting discussion. It's too bad it's turned personal.

Just out of curiosity, why do you think I wouldn't argue and support my own opinion in this thread? If I intended to go with popular opinion, I would have posted a poll. I just thought it an unusual and interesting situation. I have my take on it and thought it would be interesting discussion.

Last edited by Ivorytickler; 09-02-2013 at 08:59 AM..
 
Old 09-02-2013, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,321,515 times
Reputation: 27718
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Because I think it's an interesting dilemma. It's out of the norm. So the question is do normal rules apply? Obviously, I don't think they do and I'm arguing my case. You're free to argue yours. That's what makes the debate fun.

I didn't post the question so people will tell me what I will do. I know what I will do. I posed the question for discussion. I know that I will do whatever I have to to protect my family. Period. If that means I have to walk into the principals office and quit on the spot in 2 months to take a job in engineer, that's what I'll do. I do not owe them sacrificing my career and finances for their convenience under the circumstances. IMO, I owe them nothing except to do the job they pay me to do as long as I do it. There are, however, two sides to this and I think it makes interesting discussion. It's too bad it's turned personal.

Just out of curiosity, why do you think I wouldn't argue and support my own opinion in this thread? If I intended to go with popular opinion, I would have posted a poll. I just thought it an unusual and interesting situation. I have my take on it and thought it would be interesting discussion.
It's not as much out of the norm as you think.
I see positions going up during the school year all the time in the 5-6 districts I follow.
There's one that seems to chew up HS math teachers and spit them out before the year is over.

I took over for one teacher that left in March and school here is over the end of May.
 
Old 09-02-2013, 11:02 AM
 
442 posts, read 1,075,748 times
Reputation: 598
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
You've been posting here for nearly a year about how you are either leaving or getting fired.

What do you mean "you should have been told in March" ?
You knew you were in a bad situation. Why didn't you take the initiative and apply for jobs in March for the next school year ?

You got yourself 10 months to find another job.
Stop playing victim and go look for a job.
It may not be teaching and it may not be engineering..something you need to seriously consider.

Being on unemployment will make your job hunting a lot harder IMHO because no one wants to hire someone who is on UE and can't find a job.
Until you have walked in this person's shoes, don't you DARE be self-righteous about it.

When is the last time you tried to find a job? Let me tell you in this economy, it is BRUTAL.

A little empathy goes a long way in this "business."
 
Old 09-02-2013, 11:05 AM
 
442 posts, read 1,075,748 times
Reputation: 598
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
It's not as much out of the norm as you think.
I see positions going up during the school year all the time in the 5-6 districts I follow.
There's one that seems to chew up HS math teachers and spit them out before the year is over.

I took over for one teacher that left in March and school here is over the end of May.
The districts with openings are the least desirable places to teach. You should know that if you are a teacher.


Not everybody can pack up and move. It is extremely expensive. I just moved my belongings from Reno to southern Oregon, thanks to family helping me out since I am destitute, but that alone cost 2,000.

Unless you are in senior administration, school districts do NOT pay moving expenses for certified staff.
 
Old 09-02-2013, 11:09 AM
 
442 posts, read 1,075,748 times
Reputation: 598
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Are you being deliberately obtuse? I've stated over and over that I am looking for another job. I have been since June. I stepped up my game in July and I'm stepping it up again by hiring a recruiter in September. It's do or die time. However, it's going to be a rough year if I don't find something else. That's just reality.

Michigan has a glut of STEM teachers. There are a dozen to a dozen dozen applying for every position (I'm not kidding. The last math position I applied for had over 150 applicants.). With denial of tenure on the plate in teaching, 10 months may not be enough time to find a job. With my engineering experience being old, 10 months may not be enough time to find a job. It's not like I can just crap a new job. I wish I could.

If the intent of telling me I will not tenure was to get me to quit, they should have told me BEFORE the prime hiring season for this year not after it. It's like they told me to get me to quit but the timing left me only a small window to find another job given it's taboo to take another district's teacher after July 1st. If they had told me in March, I could have taken time off and gone to the job fairs without denial of tenure being an issue because I would have been looking long enough before my tenure year (5th year in Michigan). Next year, it's obvious I'm trying to find something to avoid a denial of tenure situation as I will be looking for a new job in what would have been my tenure year. They also had the option of not offering me a job which would have left me a free agent during the fall mini hiring season when schools are in an emergency situation to fill positions and protected me financially because I would have been eligible for UI in June. If I quit, as so many think I should have, I would have gotten nothing until December. We're talking $9100 here that I would have drawn if they had just not called me back from lay off. I don't know about you but that's the difference between being able to make it and not for me. Next year will be impossible because of the denial of tenure situation. My best bet is getting back into engineering but who knows when opportunity will knock there. I have friends who are going on 2 years looking and not finding with more recent experience than I have. I'm not in a pretty place by any means. Looking for a job isn't the issue. It's finding one.
Anymore, Michigan is an absolute hellhole for teachers.

Same for teachers in Florida, North Carolina, and just about every other state in the union.
 
Old 09-02-2013, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,321,515 times
Reputation: 27718
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonysam View Post
Until you have walked in this person's shoes, don't you DARE be self-righteous about it.

When is the last time you tried to find a job? Let me tell you in this economy, it is BRUTAL.

A little empathy goes a long way in this "business."
I'm not. I've been following this poster's story and just doled out some reality.
I'm not coming out of the blue here on this.
 
Old 09-02-2013, 12:32 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,321,515 times
Reputation: 27718
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonysam View Post
The districts with openings are the least desirable places to teach. You should know that if you are a teacher.


Not everybody can pack up and move. It is extremely expensive. I just moved my belongings from Reno to southern Oregon, thanks to family helping me out since I am destitute, but that alone cost 2,000.

Unless you are in senior administration, school districts do NOT pay moving expenses for certified staff.
I understand that. But in this economy anything goes these days.
I know of some engineers that took jobs in other countries because there's nothing here.
My ex neighbor had both his son-in-laws go to other states to find construction work and send money home.

It is tough out there and it's not going to get any better.
The longer you sit and do nothing in a bad spot the quicker you will run out of money.
And I think Ivory pointed out she's already drained her savings since 2007.
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