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Old 04-14-2014, 09:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by germaine2626 View Post
If your school district requests that sub teachers work the entire day I would be very happy to do that. If an individual teacher demands it, in direct opposition to what the school/school board/negotiation team has determined, I would probably not return to that classroom. And, I would probably report them to school administration.
These are the guidelines followed by the front office and district, not by individual teacher. Teachers also do not have to give a reason for why they put a sub on the "do not call" list. We have no shortage of people wanting to sub in my area. Some are very good and well-qualified. Others aren't.

I don't want to argue either and I'm fine agreeing to disagree. I usually find myself very much in agreement with your posts. This idea of subs getting a long, leisurely break during teacher prep is simply not how things are typically done in my district. Subs are either sent to cover another classroom, or to work in the front office for that time if they are not needed by another teacher on the team. Perhaps it is a regional difference.
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Old 04-14-2014, 09:30 PM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
20,112 posts, read 16,089,167 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitkatbar View Post
These are the guidelines followed by the front office and district, not by individual teacher. Teachers also do not have to give a reason for why they put a sub on the "do not call" list. We have no shortage of people wanting to sub in my area. Some are very good and well-qualified. Others aren't.

I don't want to argue either and I'm fine agreeing to disagree. I usually find myself very much in agreement with your posts. This idea of subs getting a long, leisurely break during teacher prep is simply not how things are typically done in my district. Subs are either sent to cover another classroom, or to work in the front office for that time if they are not needed by another teacher on the team. Perhaps it is a regional difference.
I suspect it is a regional or district thing - or maybe a union thing. Right now I work in a district that has a really tough time getting decent subs.
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When I post in bold red that is moderator action and, per the TOS, can only be discussed through Direct Message.Moderator - Diabetes and Kentucky (including Lexington & Louisville)
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Old 04-15-2014, 10:08 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by villageidiot1 View Post
When I sub I appreciate when the teacher has a planning period at the beginning of the day. I have read through a biology lesson that I will be teaching or read through the instructions for a science lab. I have also used the prep period and my lunch to correct papers. I've stayed beyond the end of the day to finish correcting tests and write a memo on what occurred that day.

If I don't have anything to do and I don't get called by the office to cover a class in an emergency, then I don't feel one bit guilty about reading a book or the newspaper. For what they pay subs, I consider it volunteer work. If a school or teacher doesn't appreciate my volunteer work, I cross them off the list. Several teachers and schools have been crossed off. I stopped subbing at one elementary school because the secretary was extremely rude.
Ah, maybe this is part of the issue.

Subs don't teach anything related to content area in my school, or actually any school I have ever taught in. They do not grade papers or tests, and they absolutely on no level would ever be allowed to actual instruct a science lab (wildly dangerous for the students and the school).

It wouldn't be possible to get a sub who is enough of a content area specialist to actually teach most high school classes, especially the engineering and science ones, so we tend to leave lesson plans that are student driven. Since my classroom is flipped anyway, this is very easy to do. Half the time I am out, I am actually teaching my own class offsite, via computer or Skype on my phone. The subs are just there in case there is an emergency and to keep an eye on things.

Last edited by lkb0714; 04-15-2014 at 10:22 AM..
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Old 04-15-2014, 10:21 AM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,684,540 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
Interesting: I looked up the policy in our sub handbook and it specifically states substitute teachers are hired to supervise and teach students and that they are not expected to do clerical work not directly related to their assignment, nor are they expected to grade papers not a part of the day's assignment, although they can be asked to cover a class during their prep period. It goes on to talk about what can be asked of substitute teacher's aides - they are allowed to be asked to do clerical work, however, they are entitled to two 15 minute breaks. It also says neither can be required to do anything that will require them to stay beyond the contracted hours. Sounds like they have run into issues before.

And Germaine, it says in our handbook that in our district substitutes placed on the "do not call' list must be notified in writing that they have been and given a brief explanation of why. The sub may write a rebuttal, and although it will not change the situation at that school it can prevent the sub from getting a negative mark on the district record.
This post inspire me to go look up our subs in our policy manual. Our was remarkably similar until 4 years ago, when the sub job description was removed from the general policy manual, and subs job descriptions were made much more generic. It states that subs can be assigned to other duties for any part of or the teachers prep period. Additionally, it state that lunch is half an hour of duty free time but that it can occur at any part of the subs day and need not occur during the lunch period. There is no mention at all the "do not call list".

Finally, I suspect this is something else we have to chalk up to regional difference, because there is a line of people waiting to be subs in our district and actually most in the state.

Question, what are the general sub requirements in your state vs what subs actual have in terms of credentials? In my state the law states that subs just need 60 college credits, in anything (might be different for SpEd) and to pass the fingerprinting security stuff. But almost all of our subs are retired, certified teachers from outside the district.
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Old 04-15-2014, 11:05 AM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
20,112 posts, read 16,089,167 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post

Question, what are the general sub requirements in your state vs what subs actual have in terms of credentials? In my state the law states that subs just need 60 college credits, in anything (might be different for SpEd) and to pass the fingerprinting security stuff. But almost all of our subs are retired, certified teachers from outside the district.
Unless they recently changed it, state wide just a high school diploma but the districts often are more stringent. In my district it is 60 hours of college, while the two districts north of us require a college degree. The reason there is such a shortage of subs here is pay in comparison to the cost-of-living. A sub here makes less per hour than a beginning sales clerk at Walmart. That means the only people who sub are retired teachers, people who just want to work every now and then, teachers who couldn't find a full time job, or the desperate. Now that I think about it, the first two categories are people who would quit if they are made to do too much busy work or are treated poorly - and according to the administrators I have talked to they tend to be the better subs. For the most part, the subs here are more likely to put a school on the "do not call me" list than the other way around. I know I have a couple on there.

By the way, we still have a teacher shortage here so there aren't too many subs that are teachers looking for that first job. You know the ones who will willingly and competently do any and all things asked of them in hopes of being hired full time.
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When I post in bold red that is moderator action and, per the TOS, can only be discussed through Direct Message.Moderator - Diabetes and Kentucky (including Lexington & Louisville)
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Old 04-15-2014, 11:06 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by germaine2626 View Post
...
BTW I hope that people are not getting the idea that I am a "lazy, entitled person". A few years ago I was doing a lot of subbing in HS English. I asked each of the teachers what was the name of their upcoming unit. I read or reread almost all of the required books/novels/texts for every English class over the course of the year during my prep times and on weekends and evenings.

It is very common for English teachers, in my district, to leave plans such as "Discuss Chapter 5 of Lord of the Flies. Be sure to mention important symbolism and how it related to the book's key themes". A sub needs to be pretty familiar with all of the literature mentioned to handle something like that.

If I have advanced notice of a job I will normally go to that teacher and ask about the topic (usually in history/philosophy/government) and frequently borrow a textbook and other materials overnight to read in depth on the subjects that I will be discussing. I do this because sometimes it is difficulty to read through multiple chapters in a history book before first hour arrives and you, as the sub, need to lead an accurate, engaging discussion.
...
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Ah, maybe this is part of the issue.

Subs don't teach anything related to content area in my school, or actually any school I have ever taught in. They do not grade papers or tests, and they absolutely on no level would ever be allowed to actual instruct a science lab (wildly dangerous for the students and the school).

It wouldn't be possible to get a sub who is enough of a content area specialist to actually teach most high school classes, especially the engineering and science ones, so we tend to leave lesson plans that are student driven. Since my classroom is flipped anyway, this is very easy to do. Half the time I am out, I am actually teaching my own class offsite, via computer or Skype on my phone. The subs are just there in case there is an emergency and to keep an eye on things.
In the school districts where I am a sub teacher whether or not you actually teach the subject depends greatly on the subject. They do not allow subs to teach science labs with chemicals and industrial arts classes with power tools. Excluding that type of situation it is very common, in my districts, for the sub to use the actual daily lesson plan that the teacher was going to use.

That is why I like to be well prepared for a wide range of English, history and basic science classes.

After that you need to know what specific teachers do. I also sub for foreign languages and most of the teachers plan something that can be handled by someone with limited experience with that language. However, one Spanish teacher not only expects the sub to conduct the entire class in Spanish but leaves her lesson plans written in Spanish as well. Needless to say I only subbed for her one time (as I do not speak Spanish). I had another Spanish teacher translate the lessons for me and had students help me during class so it worked out for one day, but I choose never to go back into her class. We have a number of subs who speak Spanish and she can always request one of them.

Math classes are a toss-up. Most Alegbra 1 and Algebra 2 teachers expect you to be able to actually teach the math but the higher level classes such as calculus and AP math classes plan something that the students can do independently or is review.

Subs grade anything that does not involve interpretation such as True & False & Multiple Choice assignments/tests/homework, when the teachers ask that it be graded. It is not unusual for a teacher to reshuffle their plans around and have a quiz or test when a sub is there so that the sub can correct all of the work. If this happens the sub generally needs to spend all or most of their prep & lunch & even after school time doing the correcting.

In the districts where I sub ALL of the sub teachers have actual teaching licenses. It is a firm requirement.

I can definitely see how misunderstandings can occur when starting in a new district because districts appear to be so varied in their requirements & responsibilities.

Last edited by germaine2626; 04-15-2014 at 11:31 AM..
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Old 04-15-2014, 11:45 AM
 
Location: A coal patch in Pennsyltucky
10,325 posts, read 10,581,616 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Ah, maybe this is part of the issue.

Subs don't teach anything related to content area in my school, or actually any school I have ever taught in. They do not grade papers or tests, and they absolutely on no level would ever be allowed to actual instruct a science lab (wildly dangerous for the students and the school).

It wouldn't be possible to get a sub who is enough of a content area specialist to actually teach most high school classes, especially the engineering and science ones, so we tend to leave lesson plans that are student driven. Since my classroom is flipped anyway, this is very easy to do. Half the time I am out, I am actually teaching my own class offsite, via computer or Skype on my phone. The subs are just there in case there is an emergency and to keep an eye on things.
At some of the schools where I sub, the subs are instructed to grade any work they collect. That can be awkward but I try to comply. I don't attempt to grade essay or short answer questions.

I sub at one junior high where if you are subbing for science, you will teach the exact same lesson as the other science teachers for that grade.

I have done science labs up to 9th grade biology.

I'm certified in social studies with a degree in political science. I feel very comfortable walking into any social studies classroom and picking up the lesson plan for what that teacher was planning to teach that day.

I'm also comfortable teaching English classes especially if I have a period to prepare.

I usually don't sub for HS math and science especially if the teacher has AP classes.

I have one district where the teachers spend a good bit of time in training and they will submit assignments and questions to their teacher with their iPads. It's good because they can get quick feedback.
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Old 04-15-2014, 12:34 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
19,480 posts, read 25,056,304 times
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OP-here,
I received an email back from the sub placement service and I was told that the high school told them that they "expect" all subs to volunteer to help other teachers during their prep time/free time. Although, the email did not state it specifically the implication was that this was an "unwritten expectation" and not part of the written information given to subs. The school told the sub placement service that they will not give me a second chance. The implication was that they never give second chances.

This HS is less than five minutes from my house & the next closest HS that I could add to my sub list would be 25 to 30 minutes away and pays $15 less per day. Should I just forget about this first HS? Or ask to see the written sub information? Or something else?

Any ideas, suggestions, cautions or input would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.

Last edited by germaine2626; 04-15-2014 at 01:08 PM..
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Old 04-15-2014, 01:12 PM
 
Location: A coal patch in Pennsyltucky
10,325 posts, read 10,581,616 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by germaine2626 View Post
OP-here,
I received an email back from the sub placement service and I was told that the high school told them that they "expect" all subs to volunteer to help other teachers during their prep time/free time. Although, the email did not state it specifically the implication was that this was an "unwritten expectation" and not part of the written information given to subs. The school told the sub placement service that they will not give me a second chance.

This HS is less than five minutes from my house & the next closest HS that I could add to my sub list would be 25 to 30 minutes away and pays $15 less per day. Should I just forget about this first HS? Or ask to see the written sub information? Or something else?

Any ideas, suggestions, cautions or input would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.
I don't see a downside to doing whatever it takes to be added back on that school's sub list.

I wouldn't waste my time with the sub placement service or ask to see the written sub information. I would try to talk to the principal, someone in administration or someone on the school board. What do you have to lose?
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Old 04-15-2014, 02:40 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,329,907 times
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Wow..I guess I should feel very pampered after reading other posts.
The 3 school districts I sub in treat the subs just like teachers.
Planning periods are free periods for us.
If we're subbing for a coach/teacher we don't have to do their athletics class.

I do give tests. I do grade papers (not subjective grades though).
I have taught lessons.

The Math teachers specifically ask for me because I am certified in Math and they just leave the lesson plan, handouts, etc. for me.
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