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First, it was the manufacture workers who made too much and had it easy (got rid of all of those high paying jobs.......and tax payers). Now it is the teachers, policemen, firemen, and government workers left to blame from the US economic woes. They are making a living and have a pension to boot. Maybe we can outsource those jobs too.
And forget about the "job makers" who have kept salaries stagnant and pay little to 15% taxes and blame the working man AND the work-less man believes it...lol!!
I find these two statements incongruous especially when you factor in all your other criticisms of the teachers opinions on this board.
People that are good at teaching don't hate it.
...or feel like failures.
I'll agree with this. This is a miserable job to have if you hate it. BTDT. Fortunately, after you do it a while you get better at it and it's much easier to like a job you feel you are effective at doing. Research shows a sharp efficacy increase curve in the first 5 years. I don't know anyone who didn't struggle with this profession the first two years.
^Absolutely. I was a much better teacher five years in than year one. And even better at year ten. This business where all/most teachers get lazy and ineffective the longer they are in the profession is pure folly and not supported by any research.
^Absolutely. I was a much better teacher five years in than year one. And even better at year ten. This business where all/most teachers get lazy and ineffective the longer they are in the profession is pure folly and not supported by any research.
Maybe they're defining laziness as knowing what you're doing and not running around like a chicken with your head cut off.
This is year 5 in my current school for me. I'm surprised at how little I've done to get ready for the first week. I've got this. My demos are set up (I just need to pick up dry ice on the way to school), my copies are ordered, my lesson plans don't change for the first week but they'll be more Socratic this year as I've decided to try a discussion format vs me telling them the rules but I know all the information I need to convey and I know that I can't throw it all at them at once like I did my first year. I know that procedures will eaten in small bites so I'm not going to cram it all in this week just to repeat it next week.
The only thing I do with my presentations is review and update where I think they can be improved compared to the first year when I wrote them all and the second year when I rewrote them all because they didn't work so well the first year. The thing that keeps improving year over year is me. I'm more comfortable with this job. I understand where my students will get stuck. I know when to let them get stuck and when to avoid the tar pit. Yup, I'm lazy. I don't spend 1/4th the time on lesson planning as I did my first year.
It's possible those experienced teachers just look lazy compared to the younger set who is running around like chickens with their heads cut off. Compared to years 1, 2 and 3 (new school my 3rd year), I'm sure I will look lazy this year but if I didn't, I'd have run screaming from the building by now. I'm looking at an easy year. Two preps and I've taught them both multiple times before. I'll change a few things but only a few things. There's no need to reinvent the wheel. I'll just improve the ones I have.
"A miniscule 0.3 % of US Teachers are dismissed after three years or more on the job"
This gives "class dismissed" a new meaning.....call it a perpetual class never dismissed, after which a
guaranteed pension for life is given as well...
In what other occupation can you say the same? I believe none....
Not even 1% of teachers are removed involuntarily from their perch after those aforesaid three years...
That is a De Facto tenure.....
So, one can just veg in the teachers lounge surfing Facebook, clock in on rote methods with zero enthusiasm or efficiency, at most play to the test scores, if that, take all days off possible(and, truly, what other occupation has a cottage industry of "substitutes" whose only job is "subbing" for those taking days off?), take the summers off(itself a quaint vestige of the time when family farm harvests needed to be sowed and tended at family farms in the 1800's), and be essentially unaccountable AND unremovable?
Again, what other occupation can say that only .3 % of their workers can be removed for incompetency?
What other occupation can say that their practitioners are essentially safe for a lifetime after clocking in just three years on the job, absolutely regardless of results or performance?
Definitely, tenure track can create a sense of Peter Principle. Likely, a mentality resulting from hierarchical structures, I assume where the usual saying goes: "it's not about what you know. it's about who you know."
Even in the creative fields, you can see a decline of artistic talents. Apple and Google seem to fit in this particular subgroup too but that's just my opinion..
Btw- I love and respect teachers, just not the power mongering ones or one's that got into teaching because that was their only option (or so they perceive to be). The good ones are usually the passionate ones who encourage their students to think, the ones with flare and talent, the ones who remain ethical to their title as teacher demonstrating value-neutrality and inspire creative learning and individual thought as opposed to those who abuse their position power as a role-model, knowingly.. and expect all students to be the same and discourage questioning and individuality.. those need to get fired!
The possibility that,simply,teaching the same subject, at the same level(for all intents, even if teaching AP and non AP, its all high school level, regardless of subject), creates burn-out.
Again, is it not like turning the same cog in a machine at the local factory after so many years, seeing essentially the same lesson plan 30 years into teaching that same subject?
I think this is where love of teaching/pedagogy comes in.....
Obviously no one goes into teaching for the money....MBA's, Law, Medicine....yes....teaching certificates, not quite....
That being said, some definitely go into it for the security....it is seen as safe, secure..for those that fear the uncertainty of occupations that don't grant that, numerative or not.......you can say the same for any other government careers, on the local, state, or federal level...they almost always pay less, but are very much more secure and generally have better benefits/retirement packages, weighted more on the back end......Few 401Ks in teaching....403b's and pensions mostly.....that is, again, the security that attracts some people towards teaching, perhaps a quarter of them.....
Finally, the vast majority are obviously attracted to teaching because of a love of the same..I see these people in a vocation, rather than a career...a career is a climb, a constant jockeying for relative position, a quest to outgrade and outwork one's co-workers......teaching is egalitarian....it reminds me of the cast of a live theater production, where everyone backstage is equal and essentially all contribute as one entity to make the production happen.....
The confusion is that there is little chance for "promotions" in teaching, and you do not see various gradations, or management manipulation outside of a small administration and outside board......yet teachers still yearn and search for the commendations and perks that come with extra effort, namely rank and pay upgrades....which are essentially not to be found...
The good ones are usually the passionate ones who encourage their students to think, the ones with flare and talent, the ones who remain ethical to their title as teacher demonstrating value-neutrality and inspire creative learning and individual thought as opposed to those who abuse their position power as a role-model, knowingly.. and expect all students to be the same and discourage questioning and individuality.. those need to get fired!
Though, ironically, the latter is likely to get better standardized test scores and would be the "good" teacher under current metrics while the former would be the "bad" teacher because they would be less willing to spend time teaching to the test and teaching test-taking strategies.
That being said, some definitely go into it for the security....it is seen as safe, secure..for those that fear the uncertainty of occupations that don't grant that, numerative or not.......you can say the same for any other government careers, on the local, state, or federal level...they almost always pay less, but are very much more secure and generally have better benefits/retirement packages, weighted more on the back end......Few 401Ks in teaching....403b's and pensions mostly.....that is, again, the security that attracts some people towards teaching, perhaps a quarter of them.....
Which makes it interesting that so many reforms are designed to remove that security. The recent wave of pension reforms have left many pension funds no better and often worse than a 401k. 403b matching has ended pretty much anywhere, making a 403b pretty much the worst retirement vehicle available.
Now you can add the attack on tenure, turning teaching into essentially patronage positions that can be hired and fired at the whim of each new school board to reward those who supported the board and punish those who did not. Once tenure goes away, you can count on teachers being required to support the campaign of current board members (both in terms of their time and direct campaign contributions) or lose their jobs. When teacher numbers inevitably decline, license requirements will go away and teaching positions will truly become patronage rewards for political allies.
Definitely, tenure track can create a sense of Peter Principle. Likely, a mentality resulting from hierarchical structures, I assume where the usual saying goes: "it's not about what you know. it's about who you know."
Definitely, Peter Principle plays a role in hiring across the board; not just tenured professions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottkuzminski
One thing I have not heard mentioned..
The possibility that,simply,teaching the same subject, at the same level(for all intents, even if teaching AP and non AP, its all high school level, regardless of subject), creates burn-out.
Why would you think that?
Quote:
Again, is it not like turning the same cog in a machine at the local factory after so many years, seeing essentially the same lesson plan 30 years into teaching that same subject?
Again, why would you think that?
Quote:
Obviously no one goes into teaching for the money....MBA's, Law, Medicine....yes....teaching certificates, not quite....
Quote:
That being said, some definitely go into it for the security....it is seen as safe, secure..for those that fear the uncertainty of occupations that don't grant that, numerative or not.......you can say the same for any other government careers, on the local, state, or federal level...they almost always pay less, but are very much more secure and generally have better benefits/retirement packages, weighted more on the back end......Few 401Ks in teaching....403b's and pensions mostly.....that is, again, the security that attracts some people towards teaching, perhaps a quarter of them.....
So? Desiring a secure working environment does not translate to laziness. Do you prefer instability? A mercurial employer who schmoozed his or her way into a position of authority? Or perhaps a nonviolent sociopath? Would you like to invest eight years of education and fifteen years of experience to be cast aside? How would you like to reach the age of 50 and be labeled as stale, not because you are stale, but because your supervisor who is an ex PE teacher/coach wants to hire the pretty young graduate whom he can pay less?
Do I want stability? Yes. I can do a much better job when I don't have to worry about instability.
The men and women serving our country have job stability. Would have us believe that they are prone to laziness?
Quote:
Finally, the vast majority are obviously attracted to teaching because of a love of the same..I see these people in a vocation, rather than a career...a career is a climb, a constant jockeying for relative position, a quest to outgrade and outwork one's co-workers......teaching is egalitarian....it reminds me of the cast of a live theater production, where everyone backstage is equal and essentially all contribute as one entity to make the production happen.....
Clarify please.
Quote:
The confusion is that there is little chance for "promotions" in teaching, and you do not see various gradations, or management manipulation outside of a small administration and outside board......yet teachers still yearn and search for the commendations and perks that come with extra effort, namely rank and pay upgrades....which are essentially not to be found...
What makes you think we are all yearning for this? As pointed out earlier, many teachers are rewarded intrinsically. The ones that need accolades figure out a way to get them.
I'll tell you what we all want: We want to come in, work hard, be paid fairly and receive a paycheck commensurate with our education and experience.
We'd also like the teacher-bashing to stop and every once in a while, replace it with a thank you.
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Compared to years 1, 2 and 3 (new school my 3rd year), I'm sure I will look lazy this year but if I didn't, I'd have run screaming from the building by now. I'm looking at an easy year. Two preps and I've taught them both multiple times before. I'll change a few things but only a few things. There's no need to reinvent the wheel. I'll just improve the ones I have.
