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Old 10-21-2014, 04:57 AM
 
46 posts, read 49,701 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmb501 View Post
I don't know what I can do, though. There is no set of procedures.
YOU make the procedures. You're the teacher. Even if a sub, for that day you're the teacher. Make your procedures that work for you and put them in place. Now, you have procedures. Easy!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmb501 View Post
Little things happen while my back is turned
Do not turn your back. Try it for a day, face the students. Find no reason to have your back turned. It's awesome and life-changing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmb501 View Post
roll call is a very difficult process in some classrooms, because students are out of their seats, talking to their neighbors, or interested in giving me fake names.
Then they will be marked absent for that day and will need to explain to their family why they did not attend class. Explain once as you get ready to start class that students are in their seats, quiet, and replying when called or else will be marked absent and will need to deal with the consequences of that. Students should not be out of their seat during roll or most any other time. You come into class and tell them that when the clock strikes whatever time I will take roll. If you are not in your seat, quiet, etc at that time you will be marked tardy or absent. Present on time for class doesn't mean you're in the room, it means you are in your seat, quiet and ready to work when the bell rings and roll is taken.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmb501 View Post
It takes me a little longer than it probably usually takes, because, one, I don't know the students, and, two, I have to make a seating chart so that I can identify them. What could I do to not be distracted during this task?
Take roll, then have students immediately do a short written assignment. Many teachers pick a relevant topic for kids to journal about. They have 5 minutes and must turn in something that will count for credit. While they do that, make your seating chart. Make the writing assignment simple so no major help is needed but interesting enough that they can and will want to write on it. Make it a little fun, a little imaginative, maybe something they can write about themselves in relation to what's being studies. They should enjoy it. Tie it in to something in their lesson if possible.
You can even walk by each desk and look at the name on each paper and use that for your chart. As a habit, they should label their paper with their name and the date and title of assignment before starting their work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmb501 View Post
Discipline
My first mode of defense is to call out the student by name and warn him or her not to continue misbehaving. My second is to write the student's name down and make notes of the deviant behavior. Beyond this, I have very little else. I don't think I have the power to give discipline essays, recommend a student for detention, or request him to call his parents. Getting administration involved is usually a no-no, because it shows the students and teachers that I do not know how to manage a classroom. Plus, every time I talk to teachers and administrators, they act like I'm a mischievous student fishing for an answer to an exam question and tell me in so many words that they can't help me. Seriously, if this is in one of my textbooks or an answer so obvious that everyone should know, I missed it. Will that be held against me for the rest of my life?

Let them know they're there to learn, you're there to teach and help. If they distracts from that process and prevent others from being able to learn they will need to change their behavior or be removed from the classroom. They do not have the right to disrupt others' learning. If one acts out call him to your desk while others have something else to work on. Discuss the problem behavior, that is't not acceptable and needs to stop now, next stop is the office. Do this quietly, calmly, discreetly and matter of factly. No back and forth arguing although you can here from them if they need something. If it happens again, there out no second chances. Cut if off at the head. They are out immediately. Don't worry about what administration things, just send him out. Better one sent out and the rest doing great than none sent out and whole class in chaos. Others won't want to be kicked out and sent to the office once they see you've done it once they will be more likely to behave. If someone else acts up, speak to them and just issue a consequence. You're welcome to leave a note for their teacher to follow up on, call their parents, ask the school to issue a detention, just get creative. And if someone is causing true chaos they absolutely need to be out, stop worry about admin and do it.

At all times you keep the tone and emphasis on that they are there to learn you are there to teach, that is the environment we are creating here, one in which you can learn and expand your minds and better your lives and maybe enjoy it as well. It's not you vs. them, it's you helping them. Sometimes helping them means consequences, and real ones, and quick ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmb501 View Post
Physical Appearance and Attitude
The teenagers usually do make fun of the way I look, but there's really not a lot I can do about it. I try to dress and act professionally, but every day is trial and error. Even when I look good, I'm treated badly, so what's the point? Sure, I've gained a little weight and have visible blemishes, some facial hair, and other imperfections, but there isn't a lot I can do about it right now. I don't try to call attention to my bad points, but I don't make enough to get plastic surgery or anything, so they can still be found if a person looks. I've just had to convince myself that it's not really a big deal, and, at this point, I don't really know if it is or not.

I'm also not very assertive. I'm working on it, but it doesn't seem to be translating into the classroom setting. I can't give students "the look" and expect them to take me seriously. In fact, in general interactions, I normally have trouble looking people in the eye; I got into this habit as a child, because I didn't want people to think that I was trying to stare them down. I also don't have great posture or a good sense of balance and perhaps it gives me sort of an odd gait.
Don't worry about how you look. If they don't like it just let them know thanks for sharing but I'd rather focus on what we need to learn today. Just let it slide off your back. Who cares. There's more important things that need tending to, such as getting down to class business. Do that.

If your "the look" isn't serious they won't take it seriously. If it's serious because you yourself believe it and you yourself feel serious about the message you want to convey, the look works. The look says "You gotta be kidding me. Drop this behavior, now." If you feel that then give the look, they'll know, they'll stop. Keeping looking till they stop. Even if it's hard. Just look. Practice it but only if you feel it.
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Old 10-21-2014, 05:03 AM
 
46 posts, read 49,701 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmb501 View Post
What I find confusing, though, is others who graduated from this "bad program" actually found teaching jobs and are doing okay in the classroom. I don't think anyone had the level of trouble I had, though. I sincerely think I missed something very important in one of my classes. Maybe I didn't ask the right kinds of questions or observe the teachers carefully enough.

I just don't know what "taking control of the classroom" looks like for a sub. If I have one student who acts up and refuses to follow my directions, what should I do? Like I said earlier, if I call the office, I'll be blamed for not knowing how to handle the kid. If I bother another teacher, I'll get similar results. If I try to give out a punishment myself, the kid will probably ignore it and I have no way of reinforcing anything. I'm not their teacher; the kids know it, and I do, too.
Who cares if you're blamed. That's life. You gotta do what you gotta do. Do what's needed and don't worry about whether someone might not like it. They won't not hire you back because you sent one kid to the office one day. Take control of the class by being responsible for it. When you're responsible for it you need to make sure it runs properly. If one kid is preventing that, that kid gets one talking to and if that fails kid is out to the office. They office will take the kid so sent him out and don't worry what they say. You are allowed to send a kid to the office. Take ownership of your class. You've responsible or it. Do what you need to do to make it right. Is it okay for one kid to go wild in your class? If no, then let the kid know it's time to stop or you will be ask to leave the classroom so the rest of us can get our work done. If you want to join us then drop the behavior and let's get the work. The end.
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Old 10-21-2014, 05:09 AM
 
46 posts, read 49,701 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmb501 View Post
So, this is a charisma issue? Why didn't anyone tell me that before I went to college and graduated with a teaching degree? I never really thought of teaching like singing, acting, or painting; I thought it was a highly procedural profession that required knowledge of the subject-matter, okay communication skills, and understanding of the rules and procedures in place. I never saw it, until I started subbing and failing, as a profession that requires certain innate talents, like above average people skills, advanced problem-solving ability, and other requirements that they don't really tell you about.
No it's not a charisma issue. I've seen teachers as lifeless as a zombie properly manage their classrooms. Take responsiblilty for your class and do what is needed to get it right. You must build in classroom management into every single aspect of your teaching/subbing. This does not come from a book. It comes from you. At all times you have to be aware of what you're doing and what they're doing and how it will affect classroom behavior. You need to think about it and plan for it. Plan it, try it, tweak it till you get it right and start instilling some good strategies that you can rely on. I suggested several for you elsewhere in this thread. Ex. turning your back causes problems, stop turning your back to the students. Simple. Done. I've done it myself. Works great. And very important: if you threaten a consequence you give the consequence. No second chances, no undermining your own authority by not supporting your own rules.
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Old 10-21-2014, 12:20 PM
 
425 posts, read 431,659 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiredtired View Post
Just as a comment (from a non-teacher), you seem to be treating a successful day as an all or nothing affair. Either the entire day goes great or the entire day goes bad.

Tomorrow, I would suggest seeing if you can make the first hour go well. If so, call the whole day a success. Or have the first ten minutes (roll call time) goes well and call that a success. Then on Thursday, see if you can make the first two hours go well (or first 20 minutes), and call that a success. Work your way up to a successful day, enjoying the small victories along the way.

The second thing I would suggest is finding a good psychotherapist and going to therapy. You are hung up on a lot of little details and losing track of the big picture, and you are trying to prove to the administration that you would be a good teacher at the same time. I think this is too much and a good therapist would help you immensely. You could use regular professional help in trying to figure out what to focus on and what is important to spend time with.

You seem very intelligent and smart.
I think this is a great observation.

kmb, you seem to really be sweating the smaller stuff. Not that you should ignore it (being able to notice these things and eventually solve the issues can make you better), but perhaps take it a little easier on yourself? You might be surprised how much that helps you personally and professionally.
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Old 10-21-2014, 12:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
=Classroom management, whether as a classroom teacher or a sub, is something that was always easy for me. Even when I student taught I had an easier time with the kids than the mentor teacher did. I have since figured out that I intuitively read kids well and can quickly assess what needs to be done to fix a problem - whether academic or behavioral. When I sub I know which kids will respond to being gently asked to behave, which need a couple of well placed compliments and thank-yous, which need me to stand near them, which need isolation, which need ignored, and which need a thump on the corner of their desk and a stare down. I also know which ones simply are going to need to be sent to the office when with a sub - but those are very rare and the principal is never surprised to see them. It probably doesn't hurt that I have, according to other people, an evil eye that could make Satan himself quake.
Just saying, not making a personal statement -

None of these things, not even the quaking evil eye, would be super effective in certain classes/schools. These are techniques that work with kids who already know a little bit how to listen, reason, and care. Say... a middle class suburban school. If you've worked with the most troubling kids and still been effective with these techniques, please feel free to correct me here.

I've subbed in some classes where these kind of management "techniques" will mostly go ignored. If the kids don't even listen to the principal or security officers, they sure aren't going to listen to a sub. Oh, and the older they are (high school juniors and seniors) the less likely they are to be responsive. I don't know the school(s) where kmb works, but this is something to keep in mind. Subbing can be a wasted effort at times. Kmb, it would be a shame to base your self-image around whether you are successful in a certain day (or period, or 5 minute segment...)
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Old 10-21-2014, 01:02 PM
 
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@OP, as a non teacher, I'll make a few observations about what you have posted:

How can you go to work and not do your best to look professional? An unprofessional appearance coupled with what you describe as your physical attributes is just begging kids to make fun of you. Kids are very skilled at finding differences and exploiting weaknesses, and they've got your number.

You don't need to know a kid's name to call out bad behavior. Knowing (or not knowing) their name has nothing to do with an appropriate response to disruptive behavior.

You get hung up on minutia, and you expect there to be one text book answer to each situation. There is not. You remind me of one of my direct reports. If he had his way, we would have a 1,000 page book that contains 10,000 scenarios that he can look at in order to find out how to deal with things as they arise.

Just because you are certified to be a teacher does not mean that you are capable of being a teacher. Passing your exams does not mean that you can put theory into practice.
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Old 10-21-2014, 02:00 PM
 
46 posts, read 49,701 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiMT View Post
If you've worked with the most troubling kids and still been effective with these techniques, please feel free to correct me here.
Yes I have.
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Old 10-21-2014, 02:27 PM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
20,126 posts, read 16,153,979 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiMT View Post
Just saying, not making a personal statement -

None of these things, not even the quaking evil eye, would be super effective in certain classes/schools. These are techniques that work with kids who already know a little bit how to listen, reason, and care. Say... a middle class suburban school. If you've worked with the most troubling kids and still been effective with these techniques, please feel free to correct me here.

I've subbed in some classes where these kind of management "techniques" will mostly go ignored. If the kids don't even listen to the principal or security officers, they sure aren't going to listen to a sub. Oh, and the older they are (high school juniors and seniors) the less likely they are to be responsive. I don't know the school(s) where kmb works, but this is something to keep in mind. Subbing can be a wasted effort at times. Kmb, it would be a shame to base your self-image around whether you are successful in a certain day (or period, or 5 minute segment...)
Allow me to correct you. Not now, but in the past - DC. I taught at a school with a 98% free/reduced lunch rate. It doesn't get a lot worse, although I'm sure some schools in Chicago are up there.
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Old 10-21-2014, 03:35 PM
 
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What age group?
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Old 10-21-2014, 03:58 PM
 
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Maybe I should just take it in strides. Today I subbed in a high school classroom where all of the kids were repeaters. While testing was going on in other classes, they held my class for about three hours, and I was instructed by the front office clerk not to allow anyone to leave the room while testing was going on. Well, the class quickly developed behavior problems that I didn't exactly know how to deal with. We were in the computer lab, and the students decided to do other things besides working on their modules, including looking up some very unfavorable content. I tried to be firm and told the kids to get off of the sites, but they mostly ignored me. I then took notes of their behavior and told them again to stop. Then, I took matters into my own hands and decided to turn off a few of the computers. Afterwards, a few students took me seriously; others did not. I told the students that the content they were streaming was inappropriate and warned them that if they did not stop, I would call for help. The ones who continued to stream it earlier ignored me. I picked up the phone and acted like I was going to call someone. Then, the assistant principal walked in without being called. The class was making way too much noise. I took a moment to explain the kinds of behavior I was dealing with. The students asked her about testing. She told the class that they should have stayed home, turned around, and left.

I was so happy when the lunch bell finally rang. Everyone was glad to be able to finally leave the computer lab. The rest of day was still chaotic but not as chaotic as it was that morning. The other assistant principal came in later and explained some of the things I was doing wrong; for one thing, I was trying to enforce every little rule, but their teachers don't do this. Also, I didn't call for help when I needed it but let behavior that was clearly against policy continue. The assistant principal reminded me that the office was right next door and they were there to help if there were any problems. I continued the day with a better understanding of the class I was dealing with, and the day went okay. The assistant principal even remarked that they were better behaved than they usually are when the teacher is out.

Perhaps I'll call today a "win," because I did get some perspective of how to deal with somewhat challenging kids. Push them, and they rebel more. Enforce only the rules that need to be enforced; treat them fairly, and they will treat you fairly. Hold them accountable for every little rule and procedure, though, and you may have a fight on your hands.
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