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Old 01-27-2015, 09:08 PM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
20,112 posts, read 16,089,167 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enrico_Fermi View Post
Personal life is a broad term to me. Does that mean I can't tell them whether I live in a house or apartment, if I have pets, that I like to perform in theatre, where I'm from?
Give me a break. You should be extremely vague about where you live (I have never had a student ask if I lived in an apartment or house). As for the rest... Do you not understand that you aren't their friend? Yes, I have occasionally discussed something about my dogs with the kids, but not every year. To my recollection, I've never had one ask where I was from. I don't think I have ever discussed my hobbies with the kids. I do have to confess to posting my NCAA brackets every year.

Here's the bottom line - you are expected to care about what goes on in their lives and make an effort to get to know them. They are expected to not find out anything about yours and therefore assume you have no life outside of school.
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When I post in bold red that is moderator action and, per the TOS, can only be discussed through Direct Message.Moderator - Diabetes and Kentucky (including Lexington & Louisville)
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Old 01-28-2015, 04:22 AM
 
395 posts, read 373,548 times
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So basically a teacher is there to be an emotionless robot who doesn't form any kind of connection with their students. I got it.
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Old 01-28-2015, 07:17 AM
 
Location: Middle America
37,409 posts, read 53,412,743 times
Reputation: 53067
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enrico_Fermi View Post
Okay, I think I better explain some issues before people start going off in all directions.

I'm 27, but I was not diagnosed with Asperger's until last May. The other issue is, I don't have to by any means disclose to my university that I have Asperger's, even though I did. They can't deny me a teaching certificate based disability if that is what people were trying to say.
I'm not sure what your age of diagnosis has to do with anything. What matters is your unwillingness to accept the importance of social cues. If you want to do a particular job, it means conforming to the expectations of the job. That's true regardless of disability. In teaching, there may well be many realities with which you don't personally agree. I know there have been for me.


Quote:
Next, they already are aware of my issues and placed me with someone I've very familiar with to avoid a potential catastrophe from a mismatched relationship.
This is fine, but does you no favors. When/if you were to get an actual job teaching, nobody would go to great pains to make sure that you had no mismatched relationships with colleagues. Learning to work with people with whom you are not initially familiar is an essential skill.

Quote:

Okay, so now to the problem I'm dealing with. Again, I said I have yet to hug any of the students yet. The touching has been very harmless I think so far. Why is a pat on the shoulder, high five, fist bump anything wrong? However, the issue isn't with how people feel about touching, but that the reason I was given is because I'm a man.
The issue is EXACTLY how people feel about touching. You are just more likely to be called out for it as a man. It's not okay for women, either. Even preschools have "touch policies," outlining the bounds of physical contact that is developmentally appropriate. I know you think it's unfair that people will look at you as more potentially predatory than a woman if you are making unnecessary physical contact with pubescent teens and preteens. At risk of sounding flippant, welcome to life.

Quote:
I'm not trying to be mean or be a pain the ass, but I'm just being frank with people that telling me that I need to try and conform my behavior to people's prejudiced stereotypes, because I simply will not do it. I'm not going to try to empathize with, respect, or even accept people's sexism. It's not my problem. I'm personally saying that I have legal protection, and if they want to take me to court they can be my guest, because they won't have any evidence that I did anything illegal or harassed anyone.
You will always be expected to conform your behavior to what it is expected in a given situation, regardless of your personal feelings about it. Whether or not this goes against the grain is immaterial. You can choose not to personally accept other people's sexism all you like, but that doesn't mean it's going to go away, or that any school is going to eventually buckle and say, "You know, it IS sexist that we'll turn a blind eye to a female teacher making inappropriate physical contact with a kid, but will come down on you, as a guy for doing the same thing. You know what? Have at it. Touch whoever you want, however makes YOU comfortable. This is, after all, about YOUR comfort." Sorry.

Nobody is going to take you to court to say you did anything illegal or that you harassed anybody (unless you did). You are simply not going to get hired or retain a job if you are unable to operate according to policy.

Quote:
I've been an intern in schools since last fall and I've mentored students before as well, and nobody has once ever made a big deal out of that. When I mentored autistic 6th grade students, many of them wanted hugs and appreciated affection. I've actually not dealt much with people thinking me being a man and hugging a child thinking it was a weird or wrong thing that would be okay if it was a woman. Most people have said they thought I looked like a caring older brother. So, what I'm also saying is that I think the fact that there is some overwhelming stigma out there about men is a load of horse ****. Just because there are some crazy people out there, I would like to think most people would at least analyze the situation before jumping to the "he's a man" fear even if there was some initial discomfort
.

I'm female. I'm also a special education teacher. My first year, I had a 15-year old boy with Down syndrome who was extremely physically affectionate by nature, very huggy, and had a very limited social filter in regard to who and when it was appropriate to hug. He would have died and gone to heaven from an embrace from me (or anybody else, for that matter). Did I hug him? NO. It's not appropriate for me, as a teacher, to be embracing a 15-year old student. It was my job to teach him socially appropriate ways to show friendliness and affection that didn't enter into the realm of making physical advances toward people who aren't family or close friends, to honor personal space, all things he struggled with and that were making his life difficult at even 15. He was a wonderful kid who is now a wonderful man. I enjoyed working with him, and as a teacher, I have held a great many of my students in regard and affection. There are a million ways to express affection that don't involve socially, contextually, and developmentally inappropriate touching. As a teacher, it's your job to model that.

Quote:
However, the important issue is, that eliminating prejudice requires more exposure so that people can see what they are afraid of isn't reality. By conforming and accepting such a stigma only allows it to keep going on without being challenged.
You can crusade against the fact that men working with children are at risk of being perceived as predatory at a higher rate than females working with children. I welcome you do to so. My husband taught, early on in his career. He is now military, and would in no way to back to teaching in the current environment, as a male, given the current environment. Eliminating prejudice is an ambitious move in social justice. That said, I don't think you're going to be able to go on that crusade and continue to be employed by a school district while doing so. It's a crusade against injustice, but like pretty much all crusades against injustice, will likely come at great personal cost, so accept that going in, if it's the hill you really wanna die on.
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Old 01-28-2015, 08:15 AM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
20,112 posts, read 16,089,167 times
Reputation: 28292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enrico_Fermi View Post
So basically a teacher is there to be an emotionless robot who doesn't form any kind of connection with their students. I got it.
No. You are absolutely expected to make connections to the students, but it is a very one-sided proposition based on what is in the best interest of the student. You are there to guide, to mentor, to educate, to care. You are not there to be a friend, a peer, or any other type of relationship other than to be a teacher. It is not about filling your emotional needs or for you to be cared about, it is about them. I have former students who I still communicate with who are grandparents now; our relationships have changed somewhat through the years, but even to this day it is not the same type of relationship I would have with a person of the same age who I just met. For lack of a better way to explain it, they treat me like a beloved, respected elder, not a friend. I can honestly say I have loved a great many of my students through the years, but it is the love of a caretaker, not a friend. We were never, and will never, be equals. It is a much more selfless relationship than that for the teacher.
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When I post in bold red that is moderator action and, per the TOS, can only be discussed through Direct Message.Moderator - Diabetes and Kentucky (including Lexington & Louisville)
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Old 01-28-2015, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Middle America
37,409 posts, read 53,412,743 times
Reputation: 53067
Connections with students can be formed in other ways. If the only way you can connect with students is by having physical contact with them and/or oversharing personal information, that is a problem.

The relationship I have with students is, at its best, as a respected, trusted mentor. Not a friend or peer. I am not a friend or peer.
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Old 01-28-2015, 11:23 AM
 
395 posts, read 373,548 times
Reputation: 161
I think maybe I confused people here. The main problem was not that I don't care about making kids uncomfortable or that I think touching is essential. It was that I'm not capable of conforming to prejudiced expectations because conscience forbids.
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Old 01-28-2015, 11:37 AM
 
685 posts, read 718,045 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
Your social life, to include sexual orientation, is not a topic to discuss with 8th grade students. If asked, you laugh and tell them you are too busy planning lessons and grading papers to have a social life.
Oldhag1, I'm using your comments to reinforce what we've both said. EnricoF,
please take heart to what we're both saying. Your personal life stays cryptically personal. I lived through fighting for glbt rights and domestic partnership benefits. In most of my positions, I kept my partner as my silent partner (where appropriate) and even in the year 2000+ when I had worked for a corporation (full time and "permanent"), I remained quiet. Eventually people put 2 + 2 together on their own. I didn't have a problem but they were adults. Schools can cause different issues because you're dealing with kids and they take on a life of their own.

Yes, we can marry (mostly). Yes, things are better. But you are potentially exposed where you are.
You need to be careful about how much you divulge about yourself. I eventually had to tell employers about my hearing because I needed a better phone and my hearing grew worse. But Aspergers - only you can decide if that's necessary.
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Old 01-28-2015, 01:44 PM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
20,112 posts, read 16,089,167 times
Reputation: 28292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enrico_Fermi View Post
I think maybe I confused people here. The main problem was not that I don't care about making kids uncomfortable or that I think touching is essential. It was that I'm not capable of conforming to prejudiced expectations because conscience forbids.
If this is that troubling for you, you need to find a new profession. Other than the clergy, no profession is expected to exhibit the main stream, clean cut, societal norm as much as education. The classroom is not a place that is going to allow you to be a rebel with a cause.
__________________
When I post in bold red that is moderator action and, per the TOS, can only be discussed through Direct Message.Moderator - Diabetes and Kentucky (including Lexington & Louisville)
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Old 01-28-2015, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Middle America
37,409 posts, read 53,412,743 times
Reputation: 53067
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enrico_Fermi View Post
I think maybe I confused people here. The main problem was not that I don't care about making kids uncomfortable or that I think touching is essential. It was that I'm not capable of conforming to prejudiced expectations because conscience forbids.
I don't think it's confusing, and I don't think any respondents were confused by what you posted (just a guess, can't speak for them all).

Here's the bottom line:

If your conscience forbids you from working in a setting where you will be held to different level of scrutiny due to your gender, your conscience will probably forbid you from teaching, because that is reality. Difficult to accept, ugly, but reality, none the less.
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Old 01-28-2015, 02:03 PM
 
395 posts, read 373,548 times
Reputation: 161
The point is I go by the law and the handbook. No handbook is going to have a set of rules I need to follow for being a man.
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