Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
First of all, I have never lumped all administrators together as bad guys. The words some or too many have been used, not all. There are great administrators out there, I personally know and have worked with many of them. They are not the ones doing this stuff, they are the ones trying to fight those that do.
Second, you don't mind doing that to teachers frequently enough that it appears to be a pattern. There are times when your words give the impression that you feel like teachers are totally at fault for every problem in education and the only group that has a responsibility to fix those problems. There have been times when I have read some of your stuff and thought "man, this guy almost seems to hate teachers," just like you think I hate administrators.
Third, I'm not sure why you can't accept the possibility that SOME administrators create unnecessary bad work environments for teachers. It doesn't mean I think you did, only you know what you did or did not do as a principal. As I keep repeating, the administrators of 10 years ago were different than many of the administrators of today. I have worked in many different capacities with administrators over the decades, this isn't just me thinking teachers used to be treated better because I was unaware of how it actually was, it's me knowing they were.
Fourth, there are problems teachers simply can't fix. They just can't and trying to create new work for them, pretending they can, is not the answer. Administrators are supposed to be leaders. They are put in leadership positions. They are paid to be leaders. A person who is not in the actual position, however is in charge of the employee, is given a lot more credibility when explaining why there is a problem than the person doing the job. It is human nature to assume when an employee talks about problems in their job that they are just complaining and are probably exaggerating the situation to get something out of it. A supervisor however is paid to observe and fix problems.
Fifth, teachers are not who needs to fix problems associated with teacher shortages. Unless you are suggesting teachers lie about their work circumstances to potential teachers and pretend everything they find frustrating about their job doesn't happen, that is. Not that it would be effective, because teachers don't need to convince potential teachers they work unseen hours beyond their contract, they figure that out all on their own very quickly during student teaching. The number one most common self-reflection comment by student teachers was that they had no idea how hard or time consuming teaching was, I don't think I have ever seen a student teacher that didn't write that at some point.
So, again, what do you expect teachers to do, that doesn't require more of their already taxed non-contract hours, to fix the problem?
I've already made it clear what I think should be done -- a public relations campaign by GROUPS, not individuals. Groups would include BOE's, teacher unions, teacher professional organizations. All we need individuals to do is not make things worse. But you don't like that idea, just as I think your idea of paying teachers by the hour is harebrained.
So just hoist up your white flag and be consigned to NOTHING improving for teaching conditions since "the other side" is controlling the conversation...Trump, DeVos, et. al. You cannot get results by trying nothing.
I've already made it clear what I think should be done -- a public relations campaign by GROUPS, not individuals. Groups would include BOE's, teacher unions, teacher professional organizations. All we need individuals to do is not make things worse. But you don't like that idea, just as I think your idea of paying teachers by the hour is harebrained.
Hey, Dude, I have no problem with those things. I do have a problem with an educator saying the following:
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
Rather than whine publicly on Facebook (and other places), educators need to do a better job of justifying their work schedule. Unless they can't.
Especially the bolded.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
So just hoist up your white flag and be consigned to NOTHING improving for teaching conditions since "the other side" is controlling the conversation...Trump, DeVos, et. al. You cannot get results by trying nothing.
And, would you just quit with this. Just because someone doesn't buy into your party line doesn't mean they have lost some battle.
__________________
When I post in bold red that is moderator action and, per the TOS, can only be discussed through Direct Message.
Hey, Dude, I have no problem with those things. I do have a problem with an educator saying the following:
Especially the bolded.
And, would you just quit with this. Just because someone doesn't but into your party line doesn't mean they have lost some battle.
Please educate me on what "teaching conditions battles" teachers have won lately.
Working conditions? As you have described them repeatedly, no.
Respect for teachers? Not according to the most recent polls I found; all declining, and it is a topic brought up quite often on this forum.
Respect for public schools, in general? Definitely not.
Money spent on education? Well, at some levels that is increasing (although will plummet federally with the new administration), and even when federal dollars have increased we get hit over the head for declining test scores.
Which battles are being won by public education?
However, you have inspired me. And I'm going to put my money where my mouth is. Starting later today I am going to try to daily post an open "thank you" note about a specific teacher that I have worked with or had as a teacher. Because, teachers don't hear enough thank you's. I invite everyone here to do the same on their Facebook pages. Just one little way to appreciate teachers (and other educational professionals) that could have some small impact on the way at least some members of the public view educators.
Working conditions? As you have described them repeatedly, no.
Respect for teachers? Not according to the most recent polls I found; all declining, and it is a topic brought up quite often on this forum.
Respect for public schools, in general? Definitely not.
Money spent on education? Well, at some levels that is increasing (although will plummet federally with the new administration), and even when federal dollars have increased we get hit over the head for declining test scores.
Which battles are being won by public education?
I get what you are saying and it is true. However, teachers, as well as others who are paid by the taxpayers, always lose economic ground during a recession. There is a lot of resentment by the taxpayers and it is during this time period that teacher gluts form primarily because the thing envied most during an economic downturn is job stability, something that teaching still has for the most part. As the economy improves and there are no longer hundreds of applicants for every position then reforms can finally occur and we are about there. The unique factor this time is that not only did pay come to a standstill but the work environment took a very concerning nosedive south. That didn't happen when you and I went through the post-baby boom nosedive. Just our pay stayed stagnet. That's why I have said this time money alone won't help a teacher shortage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
However, you have inspired me. And I'm going to put my money where my mouth is. Starting later today I am going to try to daily post an open "thank you" note about a specific teacher that I have worked with or had as a teacher. Because, teachers don't hear enough thank you's. I invite everyone here to do the same on their Facebook pages. Just one little way to appreciate teachers (and other educational professionals) that could have some small impact on the way at least some members of the public view educators.
[/b]
I think that is a wonderful idea.
__________________
When I post in bold red that is moderator action and, per the TOS, can only be discussed through Direct Message.
While there were some major changes in the education profession and public school philosophies in both the 70's and 80's, and some tweaking in the 90's, there was not any real change in how teachers were viewed and treated by districts and building administrators until the mid-2000's. Most retired teachers, or administrators in general, have no comprehension of how radically the reality of being a classroom teacher has changed. I'm sorry, you really don't. The pressure, stress, and demands are hard to understand unless you are an active participant primarily because they come from the non-teaching part of the job. Once or twice after school/before school tutoring is becoming mandatory in more and more schools/school systems. Easy student/parent access to the teacher during non-school hours is becoming mandatory in more and more schools. When you and I started, as well as for the bulk of our careers, almost everything a teacher did as part of their job during non-contract hours was a choice. That is no longer true. If there is a policy that grades for assignments must be posted within 48 hours, teachers must be actively engaged in teaching and not on their computer during class periods, both those days the teacher's planning was spent in some sort of meeting, they had bus duty, what that translates into is mandatory work beyond the contract hours. In past there were teachers that did all that, and even more, but it was a choice, and that makes all the difference.
This paragraph is wonderful.
Also, the thing that blows me away about newer teachers and, bless them, they're good and have the talent and passion and god knows they certainly have the energy and the students love 'em (and should love them) all. Most of them are good in my building, anyways. But because of their twentysomethingness, they have never known a classroom without the world of high-stakes testing, and a world that boasted of strong union leadership and presence that actually dictated policy not just in a district, but statewide in many cases. Even when they were students themselves, because of their age, it's always been this current way to them and they know nothing else. In other words: they think it's always been exactly like it is right now, just with different fashion and hairstyles.
I'm a department head at my school, and whenever I mention the way things once were to my young charges, they look at me like I'm from another millennium....hey wait a minute, I am. I describe the way things were, with a perfect balance of progressiveness and tradition, with principals and superintendents that were themselves once longterm union members and so therefore worked with the staff to solve common solutions because they also believed in the mission, and they dismiss it as something that must have been at a unique progressive school in a faraway place so different from where they are now. But it wasn't.
I've stopped telling the "old teacher stories," mostly because I will not become that guy, but also because if I could plop them down into a classroom from years past, either as a student or as an educator, I think they'd cry like hell at what was lost.
And speaking of unions, here in New Mexico it is not a closed shop, and union membership is completely voluntary. It is also not Right To Work, so most districts have unions, but the membership is about 25% in my district, all because of the "expensive" deduction from their check that is dues. Coming from Ohio, it is so foreign to me because there it is Fair Share (dues are pulled out whether you want to join the union or not.) The apathy toward the union is ridiculous....even thought they still do the contract negotiating for the whole district, settle grievances, and earned many benefits over the years, and only 1 in 4 are members, because they feel that the union does nothing so why pay $600 a year (yes, only $25ish a pay). It truly ticks me off that everyone is just fine with this.
Ah, to transport the whole pile of folks back about 30 years.......
This paragraph is wonderful.
Also, the thing that blows me away about newer teachers and, bless them, they're good and have the talent and passion and god knows they certainly have the energy and the studentss love 'em (and should love them) all. Most of them are good in my building, anyways. But because of their twentysomethingness, they have never known a classroom without the world of high-stakes testing, and a world that boasted of strong union leadership and presence that actually dictated policy not just in a district, but statewide in many cases.
I'm a department head at my school, and whenever I mention the way things once were to my young charges, they look at me like I'm from another millennium....hey wait a minute, I am. I describe the way things were, with a perfect balance of progressiveness and tradition, with principals and superintendents that were themselves once longterm union members and so therefore worked with the staff to solve common solutions because they also believed in the mission, and they dismiss it as something that a unique progressive school in a faraway place so different from where they are now. But it wasn't.
I've stopped telling the "old teacher stories," mostly because I will not become that guy, but also because if I could plop them down into a classroom from years past, either as a student or as an educator, I think they'd cry like hell at what was lost.
And speaking of unions, here in New Mexico it is not a closed shop, and union membership is completely voluntary. It is also not Right To Work, so most districts have unions, but the membership is about 25% in my district, all because of the dues. Coming from Ohio, it is so foreign to me because there it is Fair Share (dues are pulled out whether you want to join the union or not.) The apathy toward the union is ridiculous....even thought they still do the contract negotiating for the whole district, settle grievances, and earned many benefits over the years, and only 1 in 4 are members, because they feel that the union does nothing so why pay $600 a year (yes, only $25ish a pay). It truly ticks me off that everyone is just fine with this.
Ah, to transport the whole pile of folks back about 30 years.......
Wish I could rep you more than once. I've pretty much shared the same experience.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
