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It's not about "rights" educator, it's about reality.
In the real world, people are free to choose jobs that suit their abilities and preferences, and aren't forced to go to math and then music and then sit next to people they don't like and then produce work in a room that is too loud for them to concentrate.
In the job world, people sort through this stuff and have all the flexibility to accommodate their choices.
Probably not so much in public education, where they tend to teach all this stuff that you can never be late, you must work under supervision and in the environment where we tell you to work, on the schedule we give you. How many times do teachers say well, in the real world, you won't be able to ____ so we're teaching them that here.
Not so. Not so at all. In the real world, yes, you can be late on an "assignment". Yes, you can forget things. You can say I left that client file on my desk at home so I'll have to run back home and get it - let's reschedule the meeting for this afternoon. I really thought the cabinet stain would be dry by today, but it isn't, they're not ready to be installed, and won't be ready until tomorrow. Let's reschedule after tomorrow. That countertop slab you ordered broke while the guys were loading it on the truck and will have to be reordered - it'll be in next week.
In any of these cases, no one with a red pens says nope, that's late, you get zero credit. People work with stuff in the real world, unlike the classroom. But the contractor may offer to say so for your inconvenience, we'll do a tile backsplash free. It's all negotiable.
You have been very fortunate to work in such ideal environments. In my experience, and from what you can read yourself in the work sub-forum on C-D, this ain't the way it works. You sit where you are told and with whomever, don't like it - quit. You have deadlines, don't like 'em - take a hike. You have a meeting, but - oh gee, I have to run home and get the folder I forgot - not likely, and not likely you will be up for a promotion, and the next time you will be out on your effing ass.
The job world is shrinking, employers do not need special cases, snowflakes and the like...unless that's what they are looking for. And unlike school, no one gives a big heave-ho about you, what matters is THE WORK.
"It is all negotiable." Right, at the pleasure of the person with the power.
Unfortunately, that is not always the way it works in the real world. Many, perhaps most employers, expect you to be working in the office, not at home, and exepct you to work during office hours, not whenever you feel like it.
And, as an independent adult, you have the freedom to choose or not choose to work in an environment such as this. You don't have the analgous right to choose your environment when you are a student partaking in compulsory education. It's not the same. You don't HAVE to work in an environment that doesn't fit you well. Having particular needs may limit your choices, but you still have the choice. When you're a student, you don't. You have to take what is offered.
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Most jobs require being around people.
And if that doesn't work with your disability, you don't have to work in that environment. But you do have to go to school in whatever environment is presented.
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In the real world, you may be forced to work with people that you don't like. And you may be forced to work in an environment that you don't like.
You aren't ever forced to work in any environment. Working is not compulsory, like school is. Yes, you will always be potentially presented with situations, compulsory or not, where you will be confronted with people you don't like and who don't like you. Nobody's IEP makes accommodations or modifications that state that a student does not have to be around people they don't like. This is not an accommodation made under IDEA.
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I will agree that it was annoying when teachers, who never spent a day in the real world, would tell us what the real world was like.
Interestingly enough, teachers actually were not born teaching school, generally did not start teaching school until around age 23 (or older, and perhaps after time in other fields), and do not, in fact, zip themselves into a pod under their desks at the end of the school day and power down for the next school day, where, upon the day's beginning, they will unzip themselves from the pod and begin anew. They actually DO live in "the real world," every day! Truth!
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And then you will get fired. And the client that you were working for will never hire your company ever again. Again, the client will likely refuse to reschedule, and they will never work with you again, and you will likely be fired.
Neither of these scenarios is categorically true or reflective or reality across workplaces or fields.
I had clients last week who had a whole battery of evaluations done, and that information was too lengthy to have been processed by the time they were meeting with their providers. So we said, "Your evaluations are not scored yet. We will contact you with the results when they are." Nobody got fired for them not being done by the time their consultation occurred, and the clients didn't walk out and never come back. You seem to have a very limited view of what flies across atmospheres and workplaces.
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The response that you will likely get from your client is "not my problem". The response that you will likely get from your boss is "the client is always right".
They may not have a literal red pen, but they will fire you.
The company that I work for once had a project that was originally due in December, and its deadline was suddenly (in May) changed to June. As unethical as that was, legally, the client had every right to do that. All of us were told that we are expected to put in as much unpaid overtime as needed to complete the project by the new deadline. If we cannot meet the deadline, that client will never give us another project ever again. And all of us working on it will be fired.
And no, finding a job elsewhere isn't going to help, since we'd be working for the same clients.
That may be an option for an individual contractor. For somebody working for somebody else's corporation, it's not an option.
It seems pertinent to point out that a great many people are employed in places that operate very, very differently than the ones to which you are accustomed.
And, at any rate, nobody with a disability has to work for your company, if your company is not appropriate to their abilities. They can choose to work elsewhere, not work, whatever. The conversation at hand is about modifications and accommodations in school settings, where students with special needs do not have the same flexibility as working adults to attend or not attend when something is not meeting their particular needs. Most of the above is being used to illustrate a false equivalency.
Last edited by toobusytoday; 09-22-2018 at 07:13 AM..
Reason: removed spaces for easier reading on mobile devices
Unfortunately, the way out is by claiming that the task you are unable to do is a bone fide occupational requirement, or by claiming that accommodating your disability will cause undue hardship. Plus, there are a wide range of medical problems that make you less productive at work but aren't considered disabilities.
However, this thread is discussing accommodations and modifications for students with IEPs, and in order to qualify for a disability, the student by definition does have a disabling condition. You don't get accommodations and modifications protected by law in the school setting without a documented and diagnosed special need, either. If you want to talk about people who aren't disabled needing accommodations, in school or in the workplace, that is a wholly different, and unrelated topic.
You have been very fortunate to work in such ideal environments. In my experience, and from what you can read yourself in the work sub-forum on C-D, this ain't the way it works. You sit where you are told and with whomever, don't like it - quit. You have deadlines, don't like 'em - take a hike. You have a meeting, but - oh gee, I have to run home and get the folder I forgot - not likely, and not likely you will be up for a promotion, and the next time you will be out on your effing ass.
The job world is shrinking, employers do not need special cases, snowflakes and the like...unless that's what they are looking for. And unlike school, no one gives a big heave-ho about you, what matters is THE WORK.
"It is all negotiable." Right, at the pleasure of the person with the power.
Unfortunately, that is very similar to my experience. The people who are posting otherwise, I'm not sure if they've ever worked a real job in their life.
And, as an independent adult, you have the freedom to choose or not choose to work in an environment such as this.
If you are a parent, then you are not an independent adult.
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You don't have the analgous right to choose your environment when you are a student partaking in compulsory education. It's not the same. You don't HAVE to work in an environment that doesn't fit you well. Having particular needs may limit your choices, but you still have the choice. When you're a student, you don't. You have to take what is offered.
I had a lot more choices as a student than I have as an adult.
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And if that doesn't work with your disability, you don't have to work in that environment. But you do have to go to school in whatever environment is presented.
My point is that almost all jobs involve working with people to some degree.
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You aren't ever forced to work in any environment. Working is not compulsory, like school is.
But having money is compulsory for living.
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It seems pertinent to point out that a great many people are employed in places that operate very, very differently than the ones to which you are accustomed.
What other alternative did my employer have? A client, whose business they need in order to stay in business, threatened to never give us work ever again if we failed to meet their deadline. What other choice did my employer have, other than to do everything possible to meet that deadline at all costs? There wasn't enough time to hire anybody new.
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And, at any rate, nobody with a disability has to work for your company, if your company is not appropriate to their abilities. They can choose to work elsewhere, not work, whatever.
Then what do you expect people with minor disabilities to use for money if nobody is willing to hire then and pay them a living wage?
However, this thread is discussing accommodations and modifications for students with IEPs, and in order to qualify for a disability, the student by definition does have a disabling condition. You don't get accommodations and modifications protected by law in the school setting without a documented and diagnosed special need, either. If you want to talk about people who aren't disabled needing accommodations, in school or in the workplace, that is a wholly different, and unrelated topic.
I knew a girl in college who claimed to have a "disability", and said that in every one of her classes, she had a classmate with the same "disability". Her "disability" accommodations was that, when taking an exam, she had to be allowed to share a desk with another student with her same "disability", and that they had to be unsupervised.
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"I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out."
(set 1 day ago)
35,580 posts, read 17,923,325 times
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Originally Posted by mitsguy2001
Honestly, I would be in serious trouble if I was fired from this job. It is something that I worry about every day, and I honestly do not have a good solution to.
If my house were to burn down, my insurance would pay to rebuild it, and they would pay for me to live in a hotel while it's being rebuilt.
My employer would just hire somebody who is unemployed and willing to work double my hours for half my salary.
Would you be willing to explain to your children that they are not going to eat dinner anymore, because mommy or daddy didn't like their job?
If you mean the bolded part sincerely, then I can see why you are hanging on and stressed to death and willing to put up with difficult working conditions.
If you honestly mean you can be replaced quickly by someone for half the salary, your days there are numbered. In very small digits.
If you mean the bolded part sincerely, then I can see why you are hanging on and stressed to death and willing to put up with difficult working conditions.
If you honestly mean you can be replaced quickly by someone for half the salary, your days there are numbered. In very small digits.
Everybody is easily replaceable by somebody willing to work for less. What is so special about you that makes you not easily replaceable? Probably nothing.
Status:
"I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out."
(set 1 day ago)
35,580 posts, read 17,923,325 times
Reputation: 50612
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001
Everybody is easily replaceable by somebody willing to work for less. What is so special about you that makes you not easily replaceable? Probably nothing.
No, everyone isn't replaceable by someone willing to work for half what they make.
In fact, pretty much no one is. Or they'd be out of a job by the end of the business day.
Do you all feel you too many accommodations with students are given out? I actually have ADD and was never given a pass in college or any job's I've had to get by with less. I couldn't tell or currently can't tell my boss, "well I have ADD so I can't fill in this required information by the due date" "Oh and I have this diagnosis so I have to get up and walk around during certain circumstances when we have meetings so I can go think". I feel as though many counselors are giving students a pass to do less or have so many accommodations. It's not the counselor's fault in any way but it's the laws we have to abide by now. I have a class where at least 10 out of the 25 students have been given some type of pass to either get up during class, take tests late, or take notes on a laptop and I feel odd explaining to others students why certain ones get a pass to do other things. I'm honestly tired of it. When I went to college or work, things had to be done and we had to attend things, complete things, and be present during times. I feel as though accommodations have gone overboard and it's hurting these students when they don't get these when they decided to get hired in the real world. What do you all think?
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