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Old 11-12-2022, 09:21 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,759 posts, read 24,253,304 times
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I don't usually even read "letters to the editor" except in our very, very local community newspaper, but I did read one today in the main newspaper of our state, and the premise was this: perhaps the most important reason there is a growing teacher shortage crisis is that "everyone's afraid but the kids":

"the parents are afraid of the kids"
"the [central administration] is afraid of the parents"
"the [principals] are afraid of the superintendent's office"
the teachers are afraid of the principals (I added that)
But -- and here is the crux of the letter to the editor -- "the kids aren't afraid of anyone".

I don't think that the right phrase here was "afraid of", but I still think the letter was on the right track.

It's an oversimplification of the situation, but again, still on the right track. One thing left out was the school board.
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Old 11-12-2022, 09:56 AM
 
Location: NMB, SC
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I would agree that the kids are not afraid because they are all well aware of the school policies that favor them.
And schools are beholden to the FedGov for money so they acquiesce to any "Dear Colleague" letters from the DOJ/DOE.

Took a long time to get to this place. Been out of it for about 4 years now but I don't think it's changed much.
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Old 11-12-2022, 02:47 PM
 
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I would say that when I went to school in the 80s and 90s, there were kids who were not afraid, not all students, but enough to be noticed by me. Nothing really happened to them.
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Old 11-13-2022, 07:22 AM
 
12,831 posts, read 9,025,507 times
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Some questions for the writer of that letter:


Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post

"the parents are afraid of the kids"
"the [central administration] is afraid of the parents"
"the [principals] are afraid of the superintendent's office"
the teachers are afraid of the principals (I added that)
But -- and here is the crux of the letter to the editor -- "the kids aren't afraid of anyone".
.

(For clarity, I'm using the word "afraid" as I think you intended and it may not be the right word, but I wanted to be consistent.)

How many parents are actually afraid of the kids? The letter implies all or at least most. Is reality more like a percentage?

Is the administration afraid of the parents? Never saw that. More a case of the parents were afraid of the system because of what they could do to the kids. It gave them leverage over the parents. Sure, there were a few parents with the resources to beat the system, but few. Most parents who fought the system just created blowback on their kids.

Principals afraid of the superintendent? Teachers afraid of the principals? Both sound like management problems in a poorly managed, poorly functioning organization. Perhaps senior management should come from outside the school system.

The kids aren't afraid of anyone? How many? What percentage? There have always been some who you couldn't do anything with, but it's never been every kid.
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Old 11-13-2022, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,759 posts, read 24,253,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Some questions for the writer of that letter:





(For clarity, I'm using the word "afraid" as I think you intended and it may not be the right word, but I wanted to be consistent.)

How many parents are actually afraid of the kids? The letter implies all or at least most. Is reality more like a percentage?

Is the administration afraid of the parents? Never saw that. More a case of the parents were afraid of the system because of what they could do to the kids. It gave them leverage over the parents. Sure, there were a few parents with the resources to beat the system, but few. Most parents who fought the system just created blowback on their kids.

Principals afraid of the superintendent? Teachers afraid of the principals? Both sound like management problems in a poorly managed, poorly functioning organization. Perhaps senior management should come from outside the school system.

The kids aren't afraid of anyone? How many? What percentage? There have always been some who you couldn't do anything with, but it's never been every kid.
Frankly, I think you're missing the whole point (particularly since I said the word "afraid" was a poor choice on the part of the letter writer).
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Old 11-13-2022, 12:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Frankly, I think you're missing the whole point (particularly since I said the word "afraid" was a poor choice on the part of the letter writer).
If I'm missing the point, what was the intent? I understood that "afraid" was a poor choice but I wanted to stay consistent with the wording. It seems to say everyone is hesitant to do their job because of someone else and the kids were misbehaving/not doing their work/not learning/etc. The inmates are in charge of the prison.

The message chain I got was:

The teachers are reluctant to enforce rules/say anything to the kids because the parents will complaint to the district administration who will dump on the principals who will dump on the teachers, so they don't do anything.

Was that not the meaning?
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Old 11-13-2022, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,759 posts, read 24,253,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
If I'm missing the point, what was the intent? I understood that "afraid" was a poor choice but I wanted to stay consistent with the wording. It seems to say everyone is hesitant to do their job because of someone else and the kids were misbehaving/not doing their work/not learning/etc. The inmates are in charge of the prison.

The message chain I got was:

The teachers are reluctant to enforce rules/say anything to the kids because the parents will complaint to the district administration who will dump on the principals who will dump on the teachers, so they don't do anything.

Was that not the meaning?
Well, my point was that everyone has different jobs, and sometimes the people 'under' someone else don't seem to realize that the person higher than them on the totem pole are doing their job...just not the way the person lower or the ladder thinks they should.
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Old 11-13-2022, 08:19 PM
 
7,588 posts, read 4,155,752 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Well, my point was that everyone has different jobs, and sometimes the people 'under' someone else don't seem to realize that the person higher than them on the totem pole are doing their job...just not the way the person lower or the ladder thinks they should.
No. I would say that if the children are able to do whatever they want, then the person higher on the totem pole is not doing their job. That may include not guiding the teacher or not providing an evaluation quickly enough to inform the teacher that she is not doing her job. My daughter's friend tried to get out of detention by getting her father involved. We were all sure he would turn the tables around. Nope. She went to detention. The evidence was all there.
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Old 11-13-2022, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,759 posts, read 24,253,304 times
Reputation: 32902
Quote:
Originally Posted by elyn02 View Post
No. I would say that if the children are able to do whatever they want, then the person higher on the totem pole is not doing their job. That may include not guiding the teacher or not providing an evaluation quickly enough to inform the teacher that she is not doing her job. My daughter's friend tried to get out of detention by getting her father involved. We were all sure he would turn the tables around. Nope. She went to detention. The evidence was all there.
I'm sorry. I see your point, but we're talking about different things. I'm talking about the jobs and adult relationships more than the original letter writer was.
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Old 11-14-2022, 09:37 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Well, my point was that everyone has different jobs, and sometimes the people 'under' someone else don't seem to realize that the person higher than them on the totem pole are doing their job...just not the way the person lower or the ladder thinks they should.
Sorry thats not what I got. I read it more like Elyn02.
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