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My SO was a middle school teacher in several private Catholic schools for about eight years before he switched careers and joined the military. He was typically one of very few males in each school at which he taught, and he wasn't of the standard accepted temperament that is generally expected of teachers...self-admittedly not a huge planner, tended to come up with activities on the fly, not great at organizing, particularly organizing paperwork (he jokes, now, a dozen + years after leaving the field, that he still thinks he has some papers out that need to be handed back...sort of not a joke, actually). By his own description, he tended to focus more on rapport building and classroom culture than the strict organizational aspects of teaching...it worked for him at the high-risk, inner city schools he specialized in, full of boys who needed positive male role models. He looked at teaching as much as mentoring as educating, and tended to focus more on how he interacted with students than the nuts and bolts of curriculum design and instruction. He did very well in the setting he occupied, has former students who are now young adults who regularly seek him out and tell him what a difference he made in their lives. What's really cool is that his promotions through the ranks in the military have all drawn heavily upon his instructional, mentoring AND his organizational skills...niche found.
Interestingly, I have known female teachers with the same approach, particularly among those who work in nontraditional settings. I have also noticed that when it comes to unorthodox approaches (i.e. eschewing the more anal retentive aspects of teaching...data collection and management, keeping a neat desk, following your lesson plans to a tee), and being a little more loosey-goosey with things...male teachers are cut SO MUCH MORE SLACK, in part because they're such a comparatively rare commodity. Guys in education seem to get so much more leeway to be "the fun, goofy guy teacher." A female teacher with the same approach will likely be told she has problems with instructional control, whereas a male teacher is often seen as "having great rapport," and it's okay that his class gets a little wild, because, hey, he's a guy. I know it sounds stereotypical, but it's definitely something I have observed. Male educators have scarcity value. They get cut slack. Anecdotal, but what I have observed. I love the guys I work with...but they don't get nitpicked the way the women do. I don't know if it's a response to all the movies with the charismatic male teacher who breaks the rules but is beloved, or just some subconscious expectation that women in teaching should be hyper-organized, by the book, color-coded everything, etc., but the same standard doesn't always seem to be applied to male teachers, who seem to be more able to get away with being the mavericks.
The other side of that coin, however, is that if there is going to be a witch hunt, allegations made of improprieties, etc., male teachers are toast...I have personally known of cases where it's come out that allegations were false, and it doesn't matter...teacher's career is still ruined, due to the mere suggestion by a vindictive kid or parent. I wouldn't be a male teacher for the world, honestly, because you can be such a sitting duck, and once somebody suggests something, good luck getting rid of that specter. There are regards in which it is a better deal to be a teacher and a guy, and regards in which it's a comparatively more raw deal, for sure.
My SO was a middle school teacher in several private Catholic schools for about eight years before he switched careers and joined the military. He was typically one of very few males in each school at which he taught, and he wasn't of the standard accepted temperament that is generally expected of teachers...self-admittedly not a huge planner, tended to come up with activities on the fly, not great at organizing, particularly organizing paperwork (he jokes, now, a dozen + years after leaving the field, that he still thinks he has some papers out that need to be handed back...sort of not a joke, actually). By his own description, he tended to focus more on rapport building and classroom culture than the strict organizational aspects of teaching...it worked for him at the high-risk, inner city schools he specialized in, full of boys who needed positive male role models. He looked at teaching as much as mentoring as educating, and tended to focus more on how he interacted with students than the nuts and bolts of curriculum design and instruction. He did very well in the setting he occupied, has former students who are now young adults who regularly seek him out and tell him what a difference he made in their lives. What's really cool is that his promotions through the ranks in the military have all drawn heavily upon his instructional, mentoring AND his organizational skills...niche found.
Interestingly, I have known female teachers with the same approach, particularly among those who work in nontraditional settings. I have also noticed that when it comes to unorthodox approaches (i.e. eschewing the more anal retentive aspects of teaching...data collection and management, keeping a neat desk, following your lesson plans to a tee), and being a little more loosey-goosey with things...male teachers are cut SO MUCH MORE SLACK, in part because they're such a comparatively rare commodity. Guys in education seem to get so much more leeway to be "the fun, goofy guy teacher." A female teacher with the same approach will likely be told she has problems with instructional control, whereas a male teacher is often seen as "having great rapport," and it's okay that his class gets a little wild, because, hey, he's a guy. I know it sounds stereotypical, but it's definitely something I have observed. Male educators have scarcity value. They get cut slack. Anecdotal, but what I have observed. I love the guys I work with...but they don't get nitpicked the way the women do. I don't know if it's a response to all the movies with the charismatic male teacher who breaks the rules but is beloved, or just some subconscious expectation that women in teaching should be hyper-organized, by the book, color-coded everything, etc., but the same standard doesn't always seem to be applied to male teachers, who seem to be more able to get away with being the mavericks.
The other side of that coin, however, is that if there is going to be a witch hunt, allegations made of improprieties, etc., male teachers are toast...I have personally known of cases where it's come out that allegations were false, and it doesn't matter...teacher's career is still ruined, due to the mere suggestion by a vindictive kid or parent. I wouldn't be a male teacher for the world, honestly, because you can be such a sitting duck, and once somebody suggests something, good luck getting rid of that specter. There are regards in which it is a better deal to be a teacher and a guy, and regards in which it's a comparatively more raw deal, for sure.
Excellent insight. I am like the guy you describe and am the most popular teacher on my campus. I feel strongly about being a male role model because so many of my students are being raised by women only. As a history teacher, I don't face the pressure that math and English face. I also take the "difficult" boys that will not follow instructions given by women. In some cases, I have had kids who stay with me all day because they don't function elsewhere. In turn, I have been given a "pass" many times because I solve thorny issues for my Administrators, by taking the "unwanted".
Once kids trust you, it's amazing the questions they ask. For example, a number of times, boys have described a wet dream to me, then asked, "what happened?" Sometime its hard to keep a straight face as I assure them that it's normal. I also get questions about masturbation, because the topic is off-limits in "family life" classes. (I believe it's because they are co-ed classes.)
After 30+ years, I am one of the few male teachers I know who has never been placed on Admin. leave. Somehow, I've never had any serious complaints lodged against me. (Dodged a few bullets!)
Your post reminded me of some of the things that make my job feel worthwhile! Thanks!
Excellent insight. I am like the guy you describe and am the most popular teacher on my campus. I feel strongly about being a male role model because so many of my students are being raised by women only. As a history teacher, I don't face the pressure that math and English face. I also take the "difficult" boys that will not follow instructions given by women. In some cases, I have had kids who stay with me all day because they don't function elsewhere. In turn, I have been given a "pass" many times because I solve thorny issues for my Administrators, by taking the "unwanted".
And that's awesome...and truly needed. But female teachers who operate the same way should get the same pass, and not be evaluated strictly on their ability to keep their file folders in pristine condition. I work with one absolutely lovely lady, nicest person in the world, who is at best shaky on her knowledge of content. We team teach from time to time, and her lack of knowledge is impossible to miss...yet she is loved by administration, and the first and primary thing that comes up is how spotless and neat her desk is, no joke. The guys? Nobody cares if their desks are neat.
I work with, among other things, disturbed students in a specialized setting...mostly boys, and am not the cookie cutter teacher, far from it. I step outside the standard methodology, typically, due to the special needs of my students. But I see the guys I work with get passes for things that administration will come down on the female staff for...the women are expected to keep their paperwork in order (as they should be), the dudes get a pass to have sloppy paperwork, because they are "so good with the kids." It stinks, because MOST of us are good with the kids, gender notwithstanding, and that's no reason to hold people to different standards of performance, anyway. It's almost a "guys will be guys" thing...unfortunate. It's not just the guys who work with the tough kids.
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Once kids trust you, it's amazing the questions they ask. For example, a number of times, boys have described a wet dream to me, then asked, "what happened?" Sometime its hard to keep a straight face as I assure them that it's normal. I also get questions about masturbation, because the topic is off-limits in "family life" classes. (I believe it's because they are co-ed classes.)
We have an entire sex ed/relationships/communication open forum going on right now...I don't teach/lead it, because it's better for them coming from male instructors, but I hear you on the trust factor. Especially for the emotionally disturbed kids who have major issues in that department.
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After 30+ years, I am one of the few male teachers I know who has never been placed on Admin. leave. Somehow, I've never had any serious complaints lodged against me. (Dodged a few bullets!)
Your post reminded me of some of the things that make my job feel worthwhile! Thanks!
It really sucks, honestly. I work with kids who do have demonstrated histories of lying/false allegations, but fortunately, none have ever been leveled at me. But as a woman, I am not under half the scrutiny male teachers are in that department.
How many tens of thousands of dollars were required for you invest in the education to get yourself that $15K/year job? And how many years? It's all about perspective.
I spent 10 years of my life earning the degrees that allow me to teach at a cost of about $60K. I could have worked retail with no education and saved the $60K. I think it's reasonable for me to expect a reasonable wage given the investment required for teaching.
It makes no sense to compare teaching to a career that requires no education. You're comparing apples to oranges.
I'm up to my ears in student loan debt and have a masters. 30,000 would be huge for me. That's what I mean about perspective. Yeah, it's not enough, but a lot of teachers make more like 50,000, and that's probably accurate for education and skill set. At least in non-metro areas. I wasn't trying to be condescending or anything. Just saying that income is not necessarily the biggest issue. Is say retirement and benefits would be, though.
I work with, among other things, disturbed students in a specialized
setting...mostly boys, and am not the cookie cutter teacher, far from it. I step
outside the standard methodology, typically, due to the special needs of my
students. But I see the guys I work with get passes for things that
administration will come down on the female staff for...the women are expected
to keep their paperwork in order (as they should be), the dudes get a pass to
have sloppy paperwork, because they are "so good with the kids." It stinks,
because MOST of us are good with the kids, gender notwithstanding, and that's no
reason to hold people to different standards of performance, anyway. It's
almost a "guys will be guys" thing...unfortunate. It's not just the guys who
work with the tough kids.
I agree with what you are saying. This will sound sexist, but female Administrators seem to be much more "particular" about the way other women do their jobs than they are with men. No doubt, they believe they are under greater pressure "from above", and take it out on women.
From my experience, male Administrators are generally much more relaxed about things like paperwork, and are happy as long as problems aren't spilling out of your classroom on a regular basis. I haven't written a discipline referral in 3 years. Some of the women (and men) I work with write 100-300 per year. Who do you think "gets a pass" when a problem arises?
Most of my co-workers profess a preference for male Administrators.
One anomaly I've noticed over the years, is that an unusual number of fistfights have broken out in my classroom compared to the average. I wondered why for a long time, since it's often between kids who like me. After questioning a number of combatants, I discovered it's because they count on me to break it up before anyone gets seriously hurt, and wait for my class to do it. (I physically stop fights.) Now I warn them, in advance, that I'm getting too old for this $h!t!
Bottom line though, women do seem to be held to a higher standard than men. Perhaps because we are relatively scarce?
Last edited by Futuremauian; 07-24-2013 at 09:03 AM..
That includes assistants (IAs), music, p.e., counselors, secretaries, etc. It does not include custodians or cafeteria staff. I'm not sure about the exact number of classroom teachers. I believe we have about 33. When I start counting up counselors, psychologist, assistants, p.e., music, band, strings, and LD and art teachers...the number jumps pretty quickly. The school has about 800 students so it's probably considered one of the larger schools.
Wow we have 25 classroom teachers for 270 students. I think you have a small staff.
And eleven of our teachers are guys. So a little less than half.
I'm up to my ears in student loan debt and have a masters. 30,000 would be huge for me. That's what I mean about perspective. Yeah, it's not enough, but a lot of teachers make more like 50,000, and that's probably accurate for education and skill set. At least in non-metro areas. I wasn't trying to be condescending or anything. Just saying that income is not necessarily the biggest issue. Is say retirement and benefits would be, though.
While I'll admit the benefits are nice, they are kind of pricey. They take 20% of my pay for retirement and medical which makes my pay seem like even less. Yes, they're good but I pay for them. People have this crazy idea they're free. They're not.
I wish teachers got paid overtime then we would make tons of money. I honestly am not in it for the money, that's why I'm still in it.
While I didn't get in it for the money, as my family's needs have changed, I'm finding that money is driving me out of teaching. I'm finding it doesn't matter how much you love what you do if you can't pay your bills doing it.
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I also get questions about masturbation
, because the topic is off-limits in "family life" classes. (I believe it's because they are co-ed classes.)
(Dodged a few bullets!)
I have 40+. Where do you work?
