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So you do a good job for 3-5 years. That DOES NOT MAKE YOU A GOOD TEACHER!! Many of the TENURED teacher I have seen and worked with just go through the motions and people wonder WHAT IS WRONG WITH OUR EDUCATION SYSTEM???
One word TENURE!!!!
Schools can and do fire teachers who have tenure...all the time. It takes a bit more observation, evaluation and documentation by administrators, but it absolutely CAN be done. I've seen teachers who should have retired years ago be let go because they aren't effectively doing their job.
Principals who tout that their hands are tied because of tenure are misinformed, lying or lazy.
I am just stating the fact that many teachers are a very bad influence on OUR children.
I am somewhat frustrated that I can't get a job but there are child molesters and drug addicts teaching our Children!!!! I am not grouping all teachers into the same category, but rather saying, there are many upstanding individuals looking for teaching jobs that are not getting them because tenured teachers (like child molesters, drug addicts, drug dealers) are maintaining their jobs while having extremely NEGATIVE relationships with the students.
Anyone who has is a certified teacher should not do these things. It is a major problem with the system.
So you do a good job for 3-5 years. That DOES NOT MAKE YOU A GOOD TEACHER!! Many of the TENURED teacher I have seen and worked with just go through the motions and people wonder WHAT IS WRONG WITH OUR EDUCATION SYSTEM???
One word TENURE!!!!
You so realize that all tenure means is they have to show cause to fire us, right? I'm untenured so I can be fired at any time for any reason including no reason at all. All I need is the wrong parent going to the superintendent and I'm done. Do you think that's what all teachers should face every day?
Teaching is not like other professions where additional training or skills or being really good at your job make you more valuable to your employer. The truth is, all teachers are valued the same by the system no matter what subject they teach (save SpEd, they are valued more by the system), or how good they are because what determines our worth is not our skills but, rather, the number of heads in our rooms. That's how the district gets money. I could be the best teacher or I could be the worst teacher but if I have the same number of kids in my room, my value doesn't change. Sadly, what often happens is good teachers who take on their employers (like I did the charter school I worked for over lab safety) get fired while not so good teachers who make no waves keep their jobs (administrators seem to like teachers who make no waves and pass all of their students whether they deserve to pass or not.). Until a system is set up by which better teachers have more value, teachers will need tenure to keep from being fired because the new admin doesn't like that your eyes are too close together and his best friend wants your job....
In industry I control my security by increasing my worth to the system. I can't do that in teaching. There is NOTHING I can do to make myself more valuable and plenty I can do, that is right to do, that could make my administration want to replace me (like complaining about lab safety...you wouldn't want parents to know that the only "eye wash" is a 16 oz bottle of water with one eye cup given that most students have TWO eyes, now would you? That would leave me asking them which one they'd like to save. Turned out it was cheaper to replace me than buy an eye wash station that could retrofit to a sink....). What if I teach to high standards and that means that more kids fail my class and parents complain? Without tenure, we'd have to walk on egg shells and sell our souls to keep our jobs. I fail to see how that serves anyone.
Without tenure, any teacher who has gotten significant raises would be a target for replacement no matter how good/bad they are because it's a cost save to the system to replace a long time teacher with a cheap new hire. Never mind that it takes about 5 years for us to start to get good at this job. In many districts, you can hire two new teachers for the price of one long term teacher. You just have to make sure you replace both before they reach about mid range in the pay scale to keep your cash flow going in the right direction.
There is now. When I posted several years ago, the economic crisis hadn't yet made that the case.
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The last math position I applied for, I was one of over 150 applicants. There were so many of us, they brought in 30 of us for a speed dating type of interview and picked the top 5. I got a speed round interview but didn't make the cut. I was, usually, one of a dozen for chemistry positions. I was one of four for the position I have because they required a major in chemisty and wouldn't accept a DI or DX. Something like 9 out of 14 positions that posted for chemistry teachers actually excluded chem majors unless they had a DI or DX in the two years I was searching for a district job.
To the OP: It's not about your talent, ability, knowledge or ethics. It's about how well you sell yourself in an interview. I struggled to find work for two years because I don't interview well. I can do the job very well but sitting in the hot seat, I just don't do well.
If the economy picks up steam again, I bet that plenty of folks currently teaching science and math will return to industry and the shortages in those subjects will reappear.
This is great advice. If I had it to do over, I'd go this route. Not only are special ed teachers valued and paid more but they have a job where what they do matters. As a chemistry teacher, I'm being tasked with "raising the bar" by making sure everyone passes the state tests now that they "raised the bar" by requiring all students to pass chemistry to graduate. Which, IMO, is NOT raising the bar. It's teaching to the bottom of the class
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This is funny, I was doing a National Board Certification with a math teacher, working on the math section of teaching...and she was doing this complicated project with manipulatives for her students. Doing a math thing, I had no clue about. I was working on teaching my students sorting, two objects. She thought it was so stupid she could not believe we were working on the same project. But, we both got the National Board Cert. Do SPED, you will never be out of a job.
There is now. When I posted several years ago, the economic crisis hadn't yet made that the case.
If the economy picks up steam again, I bet that plenty of folks currently teaching science and math will return to industry and the shortages in those subjects will reappear.
You posted this in 2008. I was a new ed grad who couldn't buy an interview with a district. There was a glut then too. I started looking for a job in November of 2007 teaching math. During the summer of 2008, I had two interviews. In 2009, I had one. I had two in 2010 one was for the position I have now the other the math position that had over 150 applicants. I'm sorry but 150 applicants smacks of long term glut. They sure sold me a bill of goods when they said there was a shortage of math/science teachers. There wasn't and there isn't.
I don't think the economy will pick up steam again. The one thing that would have pushed us that direction, which is baby boomers retiring, has been delayed indefinitely. With companies downsizing, if we don't see, signifiant, retirements, we won't see unemployment decline. The only reason I have the job I do is that changes to teacher pensions meant that if the teacher that had this job before me didn't retire, he would have lost part of his pension. If it weren't for that, I'd, probably be unemployed right now. I didn't even have another nibble and after being fired from a charter school, it's unlikely another charter would have picked me up.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 04-12-2012 at 02:08 PM..
This is funny, I was doing a National Board Certification with a math teacher, working on the math section of teaching...and she was doing this complicated project with manipulatives for her students. Doing a math thing, I had no clue about. I was working on teaching my students sorting, two objects. She thought it was so stupid she could not believe we were working on the same project. But, we both got the National Board Cert. Do SPED, you will never be out of a job.
I wish someone would have told me that 10 years ago. I seem to do much better with students in small groups and, surprisingly, relate better to the SpEd kids. I have a drawer full of end of year presents they've given me. I have two things given to me by regular ed kids. I wonder how long it would take me to get a SpEd endorsement. I only had ONE SpEd class in my MAT. I'm sure I need a dozen classes. With two masters degrees, I think dh will kill me if I sink another $12K into this venture but, then again, there is that continuing education requirement....
The funny thing about your two projects is yours probably made more of a difference. When my students fail, it's, usually, a reflection of the effort they put in and doing things like manipulatives is really dummying down the class. For you it's not. In fact, you might be asking your kids to strtetch and grow.
This is great advice. If I had it to do over, I'd go this route. Not only are special ed teachers valued and paid more but they have a job where what they do matters.
Our special education teachers aren't paid more unless they work more days for something like ESY as mentioned earlier. They are on the same scale as any other teacher.
If you want to do SPED, you can just start teaching on a conditional, and work towards the endorsement. It would not be as much work as you think.
I wonder what the minimum would be to get a district to hire me? My current district won't move me into a special ed position unless I have the endorsement. I find that I come up with all kinds of ways to relate the material I teach for the speical ed kids. My team teacher tells me that she's been team teaching chemistry for years and this is the first year she's actually understood the material. I've gotten some very high compliments from the parents of special ed kids I've taught in the past. I feel like I'm the enemy to the regular ed kids and their parents. I'm the one stopping their child from getting an A. It's all about the grade not about learning.... I think special ed is about learning more than the grade.
Our special education teachers aren't paid more unless they work more days for something like ESY as mentioned earlier. They are on the same scale as any other teacher.
Are you in Michigan? Special Ed is the one endorsement where you can negotiate your starting salary.
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I seem to do much better with students in small groups and, surprisingly, relate better to the SpEd kids. I have a drawer full of end of year presents they've given me. I have two things given to me by regular ed kids. I wonder how long it would take me to get a SpEd endorsement. I only had ONE SpEd class in my MAT. I'm sure I need a dozen classes. With two masters degrees, I think dh will kill me if I sink another $12K into this venture but, then again, there is that continuing education requirement....
This is great advice. If I had it to do over, I'd go this route. Not only are special ed teachers valued and paid more but they have a job where what they do matters.
