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Old 03-03-2009, 04:38 PM
 
5,564 posts, read 7,654,154 times
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That is the rule in my room, but only regarding IEP data. I would lose it if I got that note!!! Who paid for the journal?
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Old 03-03-2009, 04:42 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
13,125 posts, read 17,679,712 times
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In my opinion the principal and the teacher definately over reacted and yes the journal was your daughters school work it did not belong to the school since you pay taxes and pay that teacher and principals salary . I would have considered it my daughters school work as well . And why are they so afraid of letting a parent see what their child is doing in school ? I would have had alot of ? for them, had they reacted this way toward me . I would be making such a stink at that school and then I would inform them that since they want to treat the school like Fort Knox my child will not be in their care the following year . You did nothing wrong and how dare that school make you feel like you did . good luck to you and hope you get all this settled . Oh yeah by the way you paid for the materials to make that journal correct ? if so then the principal and teacher should be corrected that journal belongs to you and your daughter and they need to shut up about it .
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Old 03-03-2009, 05:00 PM
 
19 posts, read 46,387 times
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Sam82,in beanandpumpkin's defense I did not take what she meant to insinuate that you can pull your child in & out of classes on a whim and move them. I do have a choice of whether my child attends this class/school. Homeschool is one option, but we also have another district as an option and a private school to choose from. I also did not get a "disdain for teachers" from that particular post. I cannot speak for other posts made and did not know she homeschooled her children.

I do not feel I was deceptive. Deceptive would have been taking it and not telling them.

And thanks phonelady! I do think they acted defensively because she did not want me to see the journal. I have been told frequently that my child's writing is not up to par and she has been on blue for "not writing in writer's workshop". So when I get the journal and see all the pages full of writing & pictures, it does make me wonder why.
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Old 03-03-2009, 05:06 PM
 
Location: The Big D
14,874 posts, read 36,280,357 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyan1635 View Post
My daughter is 5 & in kindergarten. The teacher & I have discussed on several occasions about my daughter's writing abilities so she is very aware of why I would want to review her journal.
I'd be MIFFED!!!! At my kids schools they have ALWAYS had their journals open for us to view during parent/teacher meetings AND the kids CAN bring them home on different occassions if they want to show us what they wrote. For instance, Johnny asks the teacher if he can take his journal home for mom & dad to read the story he wrote about their family outing that was special to him. Or my kids could just bring their journal home without even asking as it is kept IN THEIR DESKS and not in the custody of the school or teacher.

I seriously think the principal and the teacher overstepped their role in this. You wanted to view it over the weekend.......... did not know the principal nor teacher could NOT respond back to you in a timely manner and you went ahead and asked the person responsible for making sure your child got home with EVERYTHING they NEEDED TO on that day. And that includes the JOURNAL that you asked your child and the appointed person to make sure she had when she walked out the door. If I pick my kids up from school and ask them if they have homework or for me their GLASSES and they realize they are still in the classroom be it ME or someone else picking them up they have the right to retrieve such. A five year olds journal is NOT that big of a deal. Especially in light of the fact that you and the teacher BOTH have had concerns over your childs writing abilities. That to me is a no-brainer in that YOU are staying on top of things in making sure your child is improving in that area even while being a working mother that is not always able to pickup your children from school. You have made sure the person responsible for them after school is making sure that your child is coming home with what they need to. And that DOES include the journal.
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Old 03-03-2009, 05:10 PM
 
196 posts, read 510,842 times
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I find this thread very interesting. We enrolled our children in public school for the first time this year. All we hear at the parent meetings is how "education only works with parents being involved", "we need parents working with us" and several iterations of the same over and over. I'm sure this poster's school is the same.

So here we have a parent who wants to be involved and is interested in her child's education. And she is scolded.

Somewhere there is irony in this story...
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Old 03-03-2009, 05:44 PM
 
901 posts, read 2,613,222 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beanandpumpkin View Post
I was responding to the OP. I did not say anything about teachers being out to get students and parents. I feel that most teachers want the best for their students. I don't feel that schools are great places for children to reach their full potential, but it really does not have much to do with the teachers. I understand that they're held back by standards and such. I'm not sure why you feel that I have an overwhelming disdain for teachers. I personally choose not to delegate my children's educations to schools, but that does not mean that I do not like or respect teachers.

And yes, any parent can pull their child out of school. They can take their child out and homeschool, or send them to another school. The school does not own children, and there's nothing for them to tolerate or not tolerate in that situation.
I feel as if many of your posts seem negative towards teachers. I'll say no more about it.

As for pulling the child out of school, of course the parent has that right. I thought that you were talking about pulling a child out of one class and putting them in a new class within the same school. I never said anything about a school owning a child. That is certainly not what I think. I am very much for parents getting involved and being active in their child's education.
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Old 03-03-2009, 05:52 PM
 
12,456 posts, read 27,102,172 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyan1635 View Post
My daughter's teacher and the principal at her school are upset with me because I took my daughter's writing journal home to review over the weekend. I emailed and called the school on a Friday to request the journal. Both the teacher and the principal were not there (this was during the school day when I emailed & called). When my daughter was picked up that day, I instructed her grandmother to bring me the journal to review. I sent it back Monday morning with her. I sent a note attached to the journal and also emailed the teacher about taking the journal. The principal told me it was inappropriate. Here is her reason:

Federal law controls the access of student records. Parents have a right to see records upon following proper procedures. Viewing or making copies in the presence of school employees would be appropriate. To due otherwise could compromise the records of others. That is why it is inappropriate.

I did not consider the journal to be "student records". It is just my daughter's school work and I wanted to see it. It is not ever sent home. To see it I would have to go to the school. My company is experiencing lay offs and I have had to miss a lot of work due to my kid's & my own illnesses. I was not able to take extra time off to go to the school. I do not see anything wrong with taking the journal to review it and sending it back the next day. I don't think I should have to view it in there presence. What do the other parents/teachers say?
I've waited a bit to respond because I wanted to mull over what you wrote and hear other points of view.

I can understand where you are upset and very much agree that the Principal's response was inappropriate. However, I think you are overreacting and overthinking the whole thing. Does this really matter in the big picture? If you can see your daughter is improving and she's says she's happy, what else is there to stress over?

If I were you, I would be bending over backward in trying to make the last few months of this school year a positive experience for both you and your daughter. Kids pick up when their parents don't like/trust the teacher and then become torn as to who they should support.
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Old 03-03-2009, 05:53 PM
 
901 posts, read 2,613,222 times
Reputation: 562
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyan1635 View Post
Sam82,in beanandpumpkin's defense I did not take what she meant to insinuate that you can pull your child in & out of classes on a whim and move them. I do have a choice of whether my child attends this class/school. Homeschool is one option, but we also have another district as an option and a private school to choose from. I also did not get a "disdain for teachers" from that particular post. I cannot speak for other posts made and did not know she homeschooled her children.

I do not feel I was deceptive. Deceptive would have been taking it and not telling them.

And thanks phonelady! I do think they acted defensively because she did not want me to see the journal. I have been told frequently that my child's writing is not up to par and she has been on blue for "not writing in writer's workshop". So when I get the journal and see all the pages full of writing & pictures, it does make me wonder why.
I went back and read your OP. I apologize for using the term deceptive. I still think that you should have waited for a reply from the teacher. In my school, we certainly want our parents to see what their children are doing. It just seems like you did not give the teacher a chance to accommodate you. What you may not understand is that the principal and APs often look through the students' work. The teacher could get in trouble for not having the journal (that would happen in my school). It may well be some kind of law because in my school originals are never given to parents (even of report cards).
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Old 03-03-2009, 07:11 PM
 
1,428 posts, read 2,774,442 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toobusytoday View Post
I've waited a bit to respond because I wanted to mull over what you wrote and hear other points of view.

I can understand where you are upset and very much agree that the Principal's response was inappropriate. However, I think you are overreacting and overthinking the whole thing. Does this really matter in the big picture? If you can see your daughter is improving and she's says she's happy, what else is there to stress over?
I'm not the OP, nor in her situation (obviously), but in the larger picture, I would say that this issue matters, yes.

1. Journals do not equal records.
A child's schoolwork is, as far as I am aware, considered her or his property and therefore (if the child is a minor), the property of his or her family.

2. Even if you considered a journal to be a record, parents of minor children are entitled to their children's records under FERPA.
Unless I am terribly, terribly wrong (and those who are more knowledgeable should definitely correct me), I believe that the records of minor children are the property of the parents and those records obviously include grades. In every single school at which I have ever taught, grades were distributed to the students' parents and the parents were given ways to access the students' grades online when that technology became available. If the records include grades, it would make logical sense that the work which produced those grades should be available to the parents.

3. There should be no secrets between minor children and teachers that are not shared with parents.

I find this notion to be a fundamental violation of the parent-child relationship and one that has the grim potential of increasing a child's potential of being a victim of abuse. Gavin DeBecker and other safety experts have written at length about the importance of open communication between children and parents and have warned in no uncertain terms that when any adult, even one as trusted as a teacher, urges a child to "keep secrets" between the two of them, it should be regarded as a major red flag.

Of course, I am sure that the teacher acted in good faith, and probably explained to the students that whatever they said in their journals would be private, but unfortunately, I do not believe that this is a promise she can keep either legally or ethically.
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Old 03-04-2009, 08:20 AM
 
12,456 posts, read 27,102,172 times
Reputation: 6946
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Wallace View Post
I'm not the OP, nor in her situation (obviously), but in the larger picture, I would say that this issue matters, yes.

1. Journals do not equal records.
A child's schoolwork is, as far as I am aware, considered her or his property and therefore (if the child is a minor), the property of his or her family.

2. Even if you considered a journal to be a record, parents of minor children are entitled to their children's records under FERPA.
Unless I am terribly, terribly wrong (and those who are more knowledgeable should definitely correct me), I believe that the records of minor children are the property of the parents and those records obviously include grades. In every single school at which I have ever taught, grades were distributed to the students' parents and the parents were given ways to access the students' grades online when that technology became available. If the records include grades, it would make logical sense that the work which produced those grades should be available to the parents.

3. There should be no secrets between minor children and teachers that are not shared with parents.

I find this notion to be a fundamental violation of the parent-child relationship and one that has the grim potential of increasing a child's potential of being a victim of abuse. Gavin DeBecker and other safety experts have written at length about the importance of open communication between children and parents and have warned in no uncertain terms that when any adult, even one as trusted as a teacher, urges a child to "keep secrets" between the two of them, it should be regarded as a major red flag.

Of course, I am sure that the teacher acted in good faith, and probably explained to the students that whatever they said in their journals would be private, but unfortunately, I do not believe that this is a promise she can keep either legally or ethically.
I agree that the journal should have been freely available and that the Principal invoked the FERPA rules improperly. I just think that the OP is making a mountain out of a mole hill.

The teacher should have read and replied to the e-mail and freely made the journal available. There was already a history of friction between all the parties and instead of waiting for a reply regarding seeing the journal, the OP decided she had to have it ASAP. My guess is the teacher either didn't read the e-mail or decided to think about it over the weekend wondering why the Parent that's she's been having trouble with wants to have the journal. Once the journal was taken, the teacher told the Principal who felt obligated to back his/her teacher.

Again - is this worth turning your daughter's life upside down for? Is she not learning and happy?
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