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Ivory, did you read the full post? Did you also read the Wikipedia article? If so, I sincerely would advise that you give them a peek, because without that information, what you're saying lacks persuasive value. Like intellectual impairment, giftedness is not solely determined by your job.
Rather, common sense suggests the opposite: that one's job is determined by one's I.Q., not the other way around. In the case of Sidis, however, his extraordinary I.Q. had a profound effect on his acceptance by society and his continuing desire to "hide" in a menial profession. Really, please do read the information; I think you will find it illuminating.
Exactly. High five on this. A great example is that my two sisters live very mainstream and normal lives. Most people outside my family think I'm as normal as can be. But whenever I try to carry on what I think is a meaningful conversation, they are bored out of their mind and think I'm nuts for caring about these things...though I in turn feel the same thing about conversations about 'Idol'.
The same goes with Mensa...I took the preliminary tests for Mensa after encouragement from someone else. I tested very high with a very high percent chance that I could pass the real ones. But I am traditionally a non-conformist to any group, a bad habit of mine, and did not want to join a group of a bunch of smart people with half of them with a membership just for bragging rights. If I have no real reason to actually use this with my life, what is the point to it? Plus I don't like the fact that there are so many criminal minds who like to have this hanging on their wall to throw their weight around. ....prisoners writting articles for them...not who I want to be influencing my thinking. No thank you.
Ivory, did you read the full post? Did you also read the Wikipedia article? If so, I sincerely would advise that you give them a peek, because without that information, what you're saying lacks persuasive value. Like intellectual impairment, giftedness is not solely determined by your job.
Rather, common sense suggests the opposite: that one's job is determined by one's I.Q., not the other way around. In the case of Sidis, however, his extraordinary I.Q. had a profound effect on his acceptance by society and his continuing desire to "hide" in a menial profession. Really, please do read the information; I think you will find it illuminating.
I don't do Wikipedia. You do know that this is a non peer reviewed site, right? Anyone can post anything they want. Anyone can log in and change an entry. It's a very unreliable site. If my students use it, it's an automatic F.
As I said, if all you ever do is average things, your gifts are meaningless. While you may be able to test and see a difference on a test, it means nothing because nothing came of it. There is no reason to even make a distinction. What is the point of saying someone in a menial job had genius IQ? Unused IQ might as well not be. There is no, practical, point in even labeling people like this as geniuses when they accomplish no more than the average high school drop out.
I see no need for the label unless there is need for accomodations and then you don't need the label because it's obvious.
What purpose do you think it serves to label someone who never amounted anything as a genius? What difference does it make in anyone's life if you do/don't? I see no point in wasting the effort because it has no meaning. What does it mean when you were born with more ability than most people but did nothing with it? Why is it even worth anyone's time to point out they once scored 200 on an IQ test?
My friend in high school tested very high but she's pretty average in life. The only thing abnoramal about her is her ego. She thinks she's better than everyone else because she has a high IQ only she lives the same life we do and does the same jobs we do. There is nothing remarkable about her life. What is the point in labeling her a genius now? When she was a child, she was remarkable. Her intelligence made her stand out. It does nothing now.
I wasn't speaking to social success. I was talking about life. Education, career, etc, etc, etc...
Being gifted should make you something unusual. If all you ever do is average stuff, where are the gifts?
Define "way up there". As noted before, one of the most spectacular screw-ups I ever met was a guy with a genius IQ. He stood out and was unusual, all right, though he'd finally lost his day job (something prosaic, I forget what and couldn't say online anyway).
One of my friends has a much-higher-than-gifted-class-cut-off IQ and is a barber. Her twin sister, in the same rarefied intelligence range, is a clerk at a bookstore. Both do the jobs they do because it allows them time to pursue what they're really interested in, rather than playing wage slave (in the case of the barber, designing tarot cards; the bookseller is something of a dilletante and I have no idea what she's into this week).
What someone does for a living isn't necessarily who they are. Sometimes, it's simply what they do so they can do something else.
I don't do Wikipedia. You do know that this is a non peer reviewed site, right? Anyone can post anything they want. Anyone can log in and change an entry. It's a very unreliable site. If my students use it, it's an automatic F.
As I said, if all you ever do is average things, your gifts are meaningless. While you may be able to test and see a difference on a test, it means nothing because nothing came of it. There is no reason to even make a distinction. What is the point of saying someone in a menial job had genius IQ? Unused IQ might as well not be. There is no, practical, point in even labeling people like this as geniuses when they accomplish no more than the average high school drop out.
[/quote]
The practical value of giftedness is a different entity than the existence of it. Whether or not one demonstrates one's I.Q. in a way you or I or society would deem meaningful does not change a person's I.Q. -- and it certainly matters to them.
Quote:
I see no need for the label unless there is need for accomodations and then you don't need the label because it's obvious.
A child who is ready for Harvard at the age of nine (and attends full-time at the age of eleven) is going to be called something. The label is a shorthand, of course, a convenient way of saying something that would take many words. We could say, "Sidis demonstrates his prodigy through prodigious and rapid linguistic acquisition and superior mathematical calculation skills," or perhaps, "Sidis demonstrates his asynchronous development by learning one language for each of his years," but don't you think "gifted" is easier to say?
As I said, if all you ever do is average things, your gifts are meaningless. While you may be able to test and see a difference on a test, it means nothing because nothing came of it.
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Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
If you're not going to use it, what is it worth?
"If you can't sell it, eat it, or shoot it at the enemy, it's worthless."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
I see no need for the label unless there is need for accomodations and then you don't need the label because it's obvious.
I would hope the reaction of the teacher is the same as the coach who hears the parent say their kid is going to play professional sports. Support and encouragement at first with honest assessment as they work with the child.
As I said, if all you ever do is average things, your gifts are meaningless. While you may be able to test and see a difference on a test, it means nothing because nothing came of it. There is no reason to even make a distinction. What is the point of saying someone in a menial job had genius IQ? Unused IQ might as well not be. There is no, practical, point in even labeling people like this as geniuses when they accomplish no more than the average high school drop out.
The practical value of giftedness is a different entity than the existence of it. Whether or not one demonstrates one's I.Q. in a way you or I or society would deem meaningful does not change a person's I.Q. -- and it certainly matters to them.
A child who is ready for Harvard at the age of nine (and attends full-time at the age of eleven) is going to be called something. The label is a shorthand, of course, a convenient way of saying something that would take many words. We could say, "Sidis demonstrates his prodigy through prodigious and rapid linguistic acquisition and superior mathematical calculation skills," or perhaps, "Sidis demonstrates his asynchronous development by learning one language for each of his years," but don't you think "gifted" is easier to say?[/quote]
Sorry, but Wikipedia is an unreliable source. So much so, we can't quote it in any paper we write in college here. My kids are not allowed to use it in school either. I'm not going to start reading it because you said so. I prefer the peer reviewed sites.
Yes, a child in harvard at 9 is going to be called something because they are something unusual. However, if that child is holding a minimum wage job at 40, they no longer have a distinction. There's no need or purpose for a title. If you did give them a title, it would be "Formerly gifted child". That's kind of like me talking about how pretty I was at 17 when I'm 71 . Who cares when I'm 71 how pretty I was at 17? Who cares what you did at 9 if you're doing what everyone else does at 39?
Define "way up there". As noted before, one of the most spectacular screw-ups I ever met was a guy with a genius IQ. He stood out and was unusual, all right, though he'd finally lost his day job (something prosaic, I forget what and couldn't say online anyway).
One of my friends has a much-higher-than-gifted-class-cut-off IQ and is a barber. Her twin sister, in the same rarefied intelligence range, is a clerk at a bookstore. Both do the jobs they do because it allows them time to pursue what they're really interested in, rather than playing wage slave (in the case of the barber, designing tarot cards; the bookseller is something of a dilletante and I have no idea what she's into this week).
What someone does for a living isn't necessarily who they are. Sometimes, it's simply what they do so they can do something else.
I am believing that to Ivory, and to many otherss, someone way up there is definded as:
Someone in whom one admires and looks up to…which when comparing to one owns greatness has a hard time finding anyone as nearly as competent with life.
Most who know me casually might think I do nothing significant with my mind. I do not think I do either....until I start talking about changing laws, or jump into one of their debates. But I tend to stay out of it because no one cares or gets it. That's gone on since high school. I remember my coach taught a class in which I was in and had known me for 6 years. He would watch me sitting quiet in the back of the classroom during a debate and wait until I got that "look" in my eye. Then when the moment was right would ask me to join in and I'd blow the class away. I could either flat out blow them away or lead them on with little steps to make them make their own discoveries. Boy did his eyes twinkle and he'd just pat me on the back on the way out of the room. If the group became stagnant on a subject it was always, "What do ya got for us Bec?" And I'd start off..."Well its still only a half formed thought but if it gets you guys started..." He'd say, "Sometimes I think you're the one teaching the class." He was more like a dad than a teacher. A rare gem for sure.
But the class did not challenge me, although I liked debating...other than to learn that there are just some people not worth the time to debate with. That is also when I coined my phrase..."Debate the ignorant but leave the stupid alone."
Define "way up there". As noted before, one of the most spectacular screw-ups I ever met was a guy with a genius IQ. He stood out and was unusual, all right, though he'd finally lost his day job (something prosaic, I forget what and couldn't say online anyway).
One of my friends has a much-higher-than-gifted-class-cut-off IQ and is a barber. Her twin sister, in the same rarefied intelligence range, is a clerk at a bookstore. Both do the jobs they do because it allows them time to pursue what they're really interested in, rather than playing wage slave (in the case of the barber, designing tarot cards; the bookseller is something of a dilletante and I have no idea what she's into this week).
What someone does for a living isn't necessarily who they are. Sometimes, it's simply what they do so they can do something else.
Oh, I could tell you stories about one genius engineer I worked with. The things this man did. I'm amazed he's still allive. At least I think he's still alive. I haven't seen him in a couple of years. He was brilliant but he just couldn't do anything the normal way. He once tried to cut a tree down by rigging a chain saw up on ropes and pulleys so he wouldn't have to actually climb the tree .
And we knew the computer system was going down every time he did an update. You just planned on it. Once he found his bug, we were fine until the next upgrade . He was brilliant though. He managed things no one else could. Just not in a normal way but that's what made him as valuable as he is. He can do things in non normal ways. He thinks outside of the box. In fact, he lives outside of the box. I don't think he's ever seen the inside of one
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. Who cares when I'm 71 how pretty I was at 17? Who cares what you did at 9 if you're doing what everyone else does at 39?
. He was brilliant though. He managed things no one else could. Just not in a normal way 
