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I won't try to convince you, because I think you're right. The teachers YOU'VE been around are obviously the bottom of the barrel....
Rubbish, the teachers in my family are all relatively good. Some are great. And that is not based on my judgment but of the schools and students. None of them work during the summer, etc. Judging a teacher by how much they work during the summer is completely ridiculous.
Regarding myself. I taught fine, my student reviews were good, etc. I could not consider myself an "excellent teacher" though, I don't have a passion for it. The only reason I did well was that I was an expert in the material I was lecturing on. And again, this was college not K-12.
Well, I know that just when I was student teaching, I was at the school at 6:30 and I didn't leave until 5 or 6. By the time I would get home and do all of the daily things I needed to do, it was say 8:30...
Good for you, yet the fact remains. Teachers are not required to get to school early or be there after school ends.
By the way, new teachers tend to put in more hours because they have not figured out how to manage their time well and also do not have well developed lesson plans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennquaker09
In the summer there are conferences and other courses to take. The true dedicated teachers work in the summer...
Well, if they want to spend their summer working that's their choice. Its not a requirement. Whatever conferences and things of that nature are required are relatively mirror.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennquaker09
Honestly, you discredit yourself when you mention you've never taught K-12.
I'm just stating facts, what I do for a living is irrelevant. But I have quite a bit of experience in secondary and college level education. Primary not so much.
No data supports what you are saying, even if you take teachers at face value they do not work nearly as much as you are trying to suggest.
"Non-required" summer activities for me:
Two weeks of mandatory Leadership Team meetings,non-compensated
One week of AP meetings with system AP coordinator and school based AP coordinators
One week of AP Bridge class for first time AP students
One day/week school based for mail, paperwork and meeting with principal for planning ongoing and proposed programs, non compensated. This is my choice so I don't get overwhelmed in the Fall.
Three days of mandatory meetings with system and school based emergency management coordinators to update emergency plans, non-compensated
The AP meetings and Leadership Team meetings are required by the $750/year emolument as school based AP coordinator. I wish to add that I am a run of the mill classroom teacher. Also to be included is one week of mandatory pre-service meetings prior to the new school year beginning which are compensated.
One year I calculated my bring home pay against actual hours spent on my professional duties (including the unpaid hour early I arrived, the hour or two late I stayed, the hours spent grading papers at home, keeping up with student portfolios, planning lessons, preparation for those lessons, conferences, workshops, and various other meetings and trainings) and I remember actually laughing when I discovered I was bringing home less than minimum wage.
I'm not complaining, I loved teaching, but I think so many people are uninformed as to the reality of the situation.
One year, I put in over 150 hours in professional development situations, (some of it paid, some of it not), mostly done after school or even worse for me, during school (requiring me to get a sub, spend a week preparing for THAT situation, and missing that valuable instruction time with my students).
The reality about public teaching compensation is that it is public sector employment. The quality of the job you do does not directly result in more money coming in to government for additional compensation. If the economy tanks (as it is) and you continue to excel the revenues available to pay you with decline. Forget states where teacher salaries are set and appropriated at the state level. Look at those states where local government pay salaries and appropriates the money. You see a disparity in performance and pay between affluent and non affluent districts. Those districts with higher student performance pay better and many would say it is that pay difference that enables them to hire the best teachers. Pay for performance, sounds good doesn't it? But whoa wait a minute here come the complainers saying what about the poor students in other districts. Don't they deserve good teachers also. Why are the good teachers they leave going to teach in the more affluent districts. We need to pay them more. With what money? They are poorer districts because their tax base is not as affluent. Are you going to raise taxes on the poor to pay their teachers more. Is the state going to RAISE taxes to supplement salaries in poorer and lower performing districts? Are we going to limit pay in the higher performing districts to make things more equal? Is there a limit to how much we raise taxes to increase compensation? Will voters continue to vote for those who want to raise taxes. What say ye, we should have the state pay salaries with a limited local supplement to even things out? Hmmmm regression to the norm and normal pay for both above and below normal district performance?
Not easy and it leaves good teachers feeling empty when they know their outcomes should be more richly compensated when compared to others.
I am a teacher. I was an engineer for 18 years before becomming a teacher. Obviously, I can, however, I am disrespected for making this change. One of the first comments I had from a parent, after stating I used to be an engineer, was "Oh, couldn't cut it in the real world?". I was absolutely stunned. I could not believe anyone would think that making a career change after 18 years in engineering meant I couldn't cut it as an engineer.
While I love teaching, the combination of low pay, long hours and the triple whammy of disrespect by students, their parents and society in general will probably end in my leaving the profession as soon as this economy starts to turn around. Nothing I do is valued. I'm viewed as unable to cut it in "the real world". I'm told I work this job "for the summers off" and told my low pay is justified because I really only work part time. I work way more hours as a teacher than I ever dreamt of as an engineer for less than half the pay and I'm disrespected on top of that?
I think there is some truth to those who can do and those who can't teach in that those who can, are likely to get out of teaching. I can both do and teach but as things are, I'll choose to do again soon. I'm questioning my sanity in making this career change. I have always respected teachers. I made the mistake of thinking I was the norm. I'm not. Most people seem to think teaching is a lazy person's profession, that we work only school hours and live a pampered lifestyle because we get the summers off.
I'll hang in here until I get my professional certs but if I'm still feeling disrespected on top of underpaid when I get there, I'll be polishing my engineering resume. I'm told it gets better in time but I don't see the disrespect getting better.
"Non-required" summer activities for me:
Two weeks of mandatory Leadership Team meetings,non-compensated
One week of AP meetings with system AP coordinator and school based AP coordinators
One week of AP Bridge class for first time AP students
One day/week school based for mail, paperwork and meeting with principal for planning ongoing and proposed programs, non compensated. This is my choice so I don't get overwhelmed in the Fall.
Three days of mandatory meetings with system and school based emergency management coordinators to update emergency plans, non-compensated
The AP meetings and Leadership Team meetings are required by the $750/year emolument as school based AP coordinator. I wish to add that I am a run of the mill classroom teacher. Also to be included is one week of mandatory pre-service meetings prior to the new school year beginning which are compensated.
First you are not a run of the mil classroom teacher. You are not only teaching you are the AP coordinator and that alone elevates you to the top of the list. You and I both know that with the recent AP course assessments you have had a major leadership responsibility. Being on your school leadership team gives you greater responsibilities. Unfortunately academic contributions after the school day are not as richly compensated as coaching efforts in most districts. Your skill set is comparable with that of top teachers anywhere in Maryland and elsewhere. You have a very competitive salary scale that many with a college degree would find attractive. Compare your salary with a masters after 20 years with that in most professional careers after 20 years.
http://www.calvertnet.k12.md.us/departments/hr/contracts/cea/documents/fy10.pdf (broken link)
A masters plus 30 is over $90,000 a year. On top of that you have full health care and a full pension after 30 years based on your 3 highest year income.
I believe you are in Calvert County and while starting salary for next year appears to be TBA the salary for a 2nd year teacher is just over 50K with a bachelors degree. That also includes a generous benefit package and much more secure employment than most professions. Now add on that the additional money for some of your assignments and you have it pretty good to compared to most with a college degree both in and out of teaching. You also get to live near the ocean and have what free time you do have to enjoy that. You have earned it with hard work and are in a great school district and those both within and out of the professions should be appreciative of your efforts and envious of your compensation. Good luck in retirement and I am sure you are well on your way there. That pension is awesome and most people today don't have one and even fewer have one as large as the one you will be getting. Won't they also pay health care into retirement. You have earned it be proud.
You are a great example of a teacher who can and did!
"Non-required" summer activities for me:
Two weeks of mandatory Leadership Team meetings,non-compensated
One week of AP meetings with system AP coordinator and school based AP coordinators
One week of AP Bridge class for first time AP students
One day/week school based for mail, paperwork and meeting with principal for planning ongoing and proposed programs, non compensated. This is my choice so I don't get overwhelmed in the Fall.
Three days of mandatory meetings with system and school based emergency management coordinators to update emergency plans, non-compensated
The AP meetings and Leadership Team meetings are required by the $750/year emolument as school based AP coordinator. I wish to add that I am a run of the mill classroom teacher. Also to be included is one week of mandatory pre-service meetings prior to the new school year beginning which are compensated.
I have two weeks of mandatory training every summer.
I also spend, at least, a day a week planning for the next year.
Summer is when I can take my continuing education credits.
It's when I can play around with new labs.
Not this year, but perhaps next, I'll add AP chemistry/physics training to my resume. (I'm a first year teacher)
The teachers I work with all seem to spend a considerable part of their summers either continuing their educations or planning for next year.
The reality about public teaching compensation is that it is public sector employment. The quality of the job you do does not directly result in more money coming in to government for additional compensation. If the economy tanks (as it is) and you continue to excel the revenues available to pay you with decline. Forget states where teacher salaries are set and appropriated at the state level. Look at those states where local government pay salaries and appropriates the money. You see a disparity in performance and pay between affluent and non affluent districts. Those districts with higher student performance pay better and many would say it is that pay difference that enables them to hire the best teachers. Pay for performance, sounds good doesn't it? But whoa wait a minute here come the complainers saying what about the poor students in other districts. Don't they deserve good teachers also. Why are the good teachers they leave going to teach in the more affluent districts. We need to pay them more. With what money? They are poorer districts because their tax base is not as affluent. Are you going to raise taxes on the poor to pay their teachers more. Is the state going to RAISE taxes to supplement salaries in poorer and lower performing districts? Are we going to limit pay in the higher performing districts to make things more equal? Is there a limit to how much we raise taxes to increase compensation? Will voters continue to vote for those who want to raise taxes. What say ye, we should have the state pay salaries with a limited local supplement to even things out? Hmmmm regression to the norm and normal pay for both above and below normal district performance?
Not easy and it leaves good teachers feeling empty when they know their outcomes should be more richly compensated when compared to others.
I have been following education issues in Colorado for many years, and while I am no expert on the finer points of Colo school finance, I know a few things. One is that Colorado passed the school finance equalization act in 1988, which tries to even out the money available to the various districts around the state. More state money is given to poorer districts. There is a cap on how much money a wealthy district (or any district, for that matter) can raise above "base". So teacher salaries are somewhat evened out, though of course, this plan does not work perfectly. Salaries are set by district, but the very wealthy ones do not have a huge edge on the poorer districts, especially in the metro Denver area.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
I have two weeks of mandatory training every summer.
I also spend, at least, a day a week planning for the next year.
Summer is when I can take my continuing education credits.
It's when I can play around with new labs.
Not this year, but perhaps next, I'll add AP chemistry/physics training to my resume. (I'm a first year teacher)
The teachers I work with all seem to spend a considerable part of their summers either continuing their educations or planning for next year.
I have some teacher friends, and as they have gotten older, they seem to spend less of their summers working and more doing other things: travel, home improvement, kids' activities, and the like.
I have been following education issues in Colorado for many years, and while I am no expert on the finer points of Colo school finance, I know a few things. One is that Colorado passed the school finance equalization act in 1988, which tries to even out the money available to the various districts around the state. More state money is given to poorer districts. There is a cap on how much money a wealthy district (or any district, for that matter) can raise above "base". So teacher salaries are somewhat evened out, though of course, this plan does not work perfectly. Salaries are set by district, but the very wealthy ones do not have a huge edge on the poorer districts, especially in the metro Denver area.
I have some teacher friends, and as they have gotten older, they seem to spend less of their summers working and more doing other things: travel, home improvement, kids' activities, and the like.
Wealthier districts are usually wealthier because of the quality of their schools. It is rare to find affluence and low quality public education in suburban districts outside of the south. School systems are heralded in those districts and are part of the Chamber of Commerce appeal to locate business there. It is part of the appeal used by builders so they can build more expensive homes with a greater profit margin. Etc etc etc. Shouldn't the teachers in those districts get paid more since it is the fruit of their labor that is producing the increase revenue flow for their local government employer? That is what happens in the private sector and is why those who make money for people get paid so well. It is this need for standardization and fairness in inputs that is destroying American Education and creating sub standard outputs.
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