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Old 05-06-2009, 12:30 AM
 
3,532 posts, read 6,393,842 times
Reputation: 1647

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We have heard it all before that teachers whine about not getting enough pay, working 185 days a year while earning a full 12 month salary, dealing with kids who are not motivated to learn and very disruptive in class, and getting perks like health benefits for educating the children of America.

I have said this many times before, if you are a teacher basher, all you have to do is ask to volunteer at one of your local elementary, middle/junior high, and high schools and see what is really going on in those classrooms.

You will find yourself quite shocked after the cutness of watching little elmentary school age kids wash off and the reality sets in that many of us elementary teachers are dealing with classroom discipline that you would not believe go on in our classrooms.

Just this week alone, my colleague said that one of her 4th graders said to a girl sitting next to him, how he didn't give a POOP (YOU KNOW THE WORD) about her.

I had a little boy in my classroom tell me what he was not going to do and that he was not going to be timed out to my colleage's classroom.

Now what is a teacher supposed to do with defiant kids? You send them to the principal's office the principal sends them right back telling you to deal with it, because that classroom rule that the child violated is not serious enough for a suspension.

We have some kids that no matter what I say, and what I do, they just won't listen nor will they attempt to do their classwork, and I am talking about 4th graders.

Some kids will work and will listen, and I am not complaining what so ever about the students who are disruptive. But there does seem to be this view that all we have to do in the classroom is snap our fingers and our little or big darlings are going to snap into attention and be all ready to pay attention and learn in our classrooms.

To add insult to injury, we are still responsible for those students who make no progress, who don't speak english as their first language, and who probably qualifies for special education, but can't get in because those classes are too full. And we are blamed for them not becoming proficient under our watch.

Let's not even go there with the curriculum, but I will. Elementary Teachers in CA are responsible for over 200 Reading/Language Arts standards. We have PE, Math, Health, Social Studies, and Science Stardards. You can go the CA department of Ed and look them up for yourselves for each grade level, and you will be amazed at how much California has risen the bar for our students.

Then, so that we aren't sitting at our desks, we have to come up with lessons, differentiated WEEKLY to meet the individual needs of our students. This is called universal access. This is something that bascially forces elementary teachers to plan a minimum of 4 different lessons within one lesson so that they kids can have equal access to that standard.When UA became a mandate in my district, it took us about two years to fully implement it properly because our administrators at hand just told us to do it, without training us on the implementation of it in our classrooms.

On top of that, we are mandated by CA law or our district can run the risk of being sued by any civil rights organization to teach 30 minutes a day, English Language Development lessons for students who aren't speaking English as a first language and have scored on the CELDT Test, Ca English Language Development Test of 1, 2, or 3. That's about half of my class, and we have a problem providing that instruction for our level 1s, 2s, and 3s because some teachers have more 1s then 3s or vice versa, and we cant teach all 3 levels together without splitting them up--it would be against the law if we taught more than two level students in one sitting.

I am supposed to figure out how to teach all subjects within a 5 hour instructional day, and have all of my students proficient for the CST test. Not that I am complaining and I don' t want you to think that I am, but I am just trying to show what we are required daily to teach.

As I said earlier, we have 5 hours of instructional time in a school day, excluding recess and lunch. I am required to teach Reading and Language Arts 2 and 1/2 hours uninterrupted too (Math 1 hour, ELD 30 Mins. , Social Studies 30 mins, Science 30 mins, Health 30 mins, PE 20 mins a day), all of which have to be mastered by our students to get them prepared for the next year. When you add up those totals, do you get 5 hours?

So hopefully this perspective will give you all some insight on what teachers especially elementary teachers are dealing and facing on a daily basis.

I would love to read middle and high school teachers comments on how their day goes.
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Old 05-06-2009, 09:18 AM
 
31,672 posts, read 40,906,663 times
Reputation: 14418
Sometimes it is bashing other times it is simply C.E.R.

Consumer
Evaluation
Review

If the consumer isn't happy it is reasonable to look at the product for critique and improvement.

Not sure the public is happy about the public education product it is being charged for. Notice I didn't say sold as buying for the tax payer isn't an option.
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Old 05-06-2009, 09:23 AM
 
31,672 posts, read 40,906,663 times
Reputation: 14418
Quote:
Originally Posted by antredd View Post
We have heard it all before that teachers whine about not getting enough pay, working 185 days a year while earning a full 12 month salary, dealing with kids who are not motivated to learn and very disruptive in class, and getting perks like health benefits for educating the children of America.

I have said this many times before, if you are a teacher basher, all you have to do is ask to volunteer at one of your local elementary, middle/junior high, and high schools and see what is really going on in those classrooms.

You will find yourself quite shocked after the cutness of watching little elmentary school age kids wash off and the reality sets in that many of us elementary teachers are dealing with classroom discipline that you would not believe go on in our classrooms.

Just this week alone, my colleague said that one of her 4th graders said to a girl sitting next to him, how he didn't give a POOP (YOU KNOW THE WORD) about her.

I had a little boy in my classroom tell me what he was not going to do and that he was not going to be timed out to my colleage's classroom.

Now what is a teacher supposed to do with defiant kids? You send them to the principal's office the principal sends them right back telling you to deal with it, because that classroom rule that the child violated is not serious enough for a suspension.

We have some kids that no matter what I say, and what I do, they just won't listen nor will they attempt to do their classwork, and I am talking about 4th graders.

Some kids will work and will listen, and I am not complaining what so ever about the students who are disruptive. But there does seem to be this view that all we have to do in the classroom is snap our fingers and our little or big darlings are going to snap into attention and be all ready to pay attention and learn in our classrooms.

To add insult to injury, we are still responsible for those students who make no progress, who don't speak english as their first language, and who probably qualifies for special education, but can't get in because those classes are too full. And we are blamed for them not becoming proficient under our watch.

Let's not even go there with the curriculum, but I will. Elementary Teachers in CA are responsible for over 200 Reading/Language Arts standards. We have PE, Math, Health, Social Studies, and Science Stardards. You can go the CA department of Ed and look them up for yourselves for each grade level, and you will be amazed at how much California has risen the bar for our students.

Then, so that we aren't sitting at our desks, we have to come up with lessons, differentiated WEEKLY to meet the individual needs of our students. This is called universal access. This is something that bascially forces elementary teachers to plan a minimum of 4 different lessons within one lesson so that they kids can have equal access to that standard.When UA became a mandate in my district, it took us about two years to fully implement it properly because our administrators at hand just told us to do it, without training us on the implementation of it in our classrooms.

On top of that, we are mandated by CA law or our district can run the risk of being sued by any civil rights organization to teach 30 minutes a day, English Language Development lessons for students who aren't speaking English as a first language and have scored on the CELDT Test, Ca English Language Development Test of 1, 2, or 3. That's about half of my class, and we have a problem providing that instruction for our level 1s, 2s, and 3s because some teachers have more 1s then 3s or vice versa, and we cant teach all 3 levels together without splitting them up--it would be against the law if we taught more than two level students in one sitting.

I am supposed to figure out how to teach all subjects within a 5 hour instructional day, and have all of my students proficient for the CST test. Not that I am complaining and I don' t want you to think that I am, but I am just trying to show what we are required daily to teach.

As I said earlier, we have 5 hours of instructional time in a school day, excluding recess and lunch. I am required to teach Reading and Language Arts 2 and 1/2 hours uninterrupted too (Math 1 hour, ELD 30 Mins. , Social Studies 30 mins, Science 30 mins, Health 30 mins, PE 20 mins a day), all of which have to be mastered by our students to get them prepared for the next year. When you add up those totals, do you get 5 hours?

So hopefully this perspective will give you all some insight on what teachers especially elementary teachers are dealing and facing on a daily basis.

I would love to read middle and high school teachers comments on how their day goes.
So with all that being said you think the California tax payers should invest more or less of their tax dollars in education? Now remember the budget deficits. Is this throwing good money after bad investments? Not that teachers are at fault but if it isn't working then we need to reinvent the systems make radical cuts and changes so we stop wasting money.
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Old 05-06-2009, 09:43 AM
 
Location: Right where I want to be.
4,507 posts, read 9,029,603 times
Reputation: 3360
OP, you are (as many other teachers do) looking in the wrong direction when you suggest that it is the 'teacher bashers' (parents) who just don't understand. Then you go on to list problems with administration, legislation, district policy, etc. You have as much control over those things as we do. In fact, you have more power as a group of employees to protest bad policy, unsupportive administration and legislation that ties your hands.

So you complain that parents don't volunteer enough to understand and have sympathy for what you face and yet it is only parents I see voicing concern at school board meetings and at voting time. When are the teachers going to stand up to this stuff and demand a change from the people who can affect change instead of whining to parents and community? BTW, when I talk about teachers demanding a change I'm not talking about more pay or less work but real changes that would make a difference in your ability to produce a quality product....educated children.

I agree that you seem to have a tough job. But, I offer little sympathy if you post about it here instead of taking your list of complaints and issues to your administration and school board meetings. None of us here write policy or legislation and frankly, the only people the schools seem to care less about than students these days is the parents. Teachers need to stand up.
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Old 05-06-2009, 09:44 AM
 
Location: In the north country fair
4,933 posts, read 10,603,731 times
Reputation: 7703
I don't teach in CA but I have had to deal with all of the problems that you have listed.
I could address each and every one, but I won't--there are so many problems with the public schools in this country that analyzing them would take forever but, more importantly, would be completely fruitless.
In short, if you don't agree with how the schools are being run, then I would try to find a school that agrees with you a bit better (i.e. something in the private sector.) In fact, this is what most teachers (myself included) are doing because they realize that they are fighting a losing battle and that the system is unfairly weighted against them. And, unfortunately, if you stay and tolerate this kind of treatment, it does not stimulate the necessary impetus for it to change.
Aside from leaving, I would try to organize with the local teachers' union (if there is one.) I am nearly certain that other teachers feel the same way that you do (and if they don't, then you definitely need to look for employment elsewhere.)
Suffice to stay, I feel your pain. I left the public school system, and found employment in the private sector. It doesn't pay as much but I am so much happier.
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Old 05-06-2009, 09:11 PM
 
3,532 posts, read 6,393,842 times
Reputation: 1647
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
So with all that being said you think the California tax payers should invest more or less of their tax dollars in education? Now remember the budget deficits. Is this throwing good money after bad investments? Not that teachers are at fault but if it isn't working then we need to reinvent the systems make radical cuts and changes so we stop wasting money.
I strongly suggest that you talk to your congress person, and see what he or she says to you about this very topic. I guess you can say their hands are tied, especially if SOME people strongly feel that every child, regardless of his or her legal status, has a right to a FREE AND PUBLIC education, AT ANY COST.

Last edited by antredd; 05-06-2009 at 09:54 PM..
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Old 05-06-2009, 11:47 PM
 
31,672 posts, read 40,906,663 times
Reputation: 14418
Quote:
Originally Posted by antredd View Post
I strongly suggest that you talk to your congress person, and see what he or she says to you about this very topic. I guess you can say their hands are tied, especially if SOME people strongly feel that every child, regardless of his or her legal status, has a right to a FREE AND PUBLIC education, AT ANY COST.
That probably depends on the ideology of your congress person. A conservative would not agree with that and would be working to restrict the ever increasing and unaffordable cost of education.
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Old 05-07-2009, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,219,944 times
Reputation: 35920
I am probably going to make my teacher friends on this board angry, but here goes:

Is starting all these threads going to resolve the issue at hand, either? We have heard more in the last few weeks about how tough teachers have it, how CA law is awful, what poor working conditions, salaries, etc teachers make, how hard they work outside of school hours, how awful parents are, etc, etc, etc.

I think one of the main reasons the general public doesn't respond to this stuff the way some teachers would like is that we are all dealing with similar problems at our own workplaces! And I would like to say, if teachers are putting in so much time outside of school hours, how do they have the time to post on CD so much?
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Old 05-07-2009, 04:04 PM
 
Location: In the north country fair
4,933 posts, read 10,603,731 times
Reputation: 7703
Call me an idealist, but I do think that these posts make a difference, if only to know that you are not the only one in the world that is dealing with an issue or to just vent your frustration, which is healthy.
I agree about going to someone who has at least the power to initiate the change that we desire. But isn't this why there are teachers' unions and union representatives?
At the very least, though, perhaps our time [as teachers] would be better spent by converting these posts into letters that we address to our government representatives. If teachers can organize themselves and channel this frustration productively, maybe we can initiate the change that we so desperately need.
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Old 05-07-2009, 05:10 PM
 
31,672 posts, read 40,906,663 times
Reputation: 14418
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I am probably going to make my teacher friends on this board angry, but here goes:

Is starting all these threads going to resolve the issue at hand, either? We have heard more in the last few weeks about how tough teachers have it, how CA law is awful, what poor working conditions, salaries, etc teachers make, how hard they work outside of school hours, how awful parents are, etc, etc, etc.

I think one of the main reasons the general public doesn't respond to this stuff the way some teachers would like is that we are all dealing with similar problems at our own workplaces! And I would like to say, if teachers are putting in so much time outside of school hours, how do they have the time to post on CD so much?
Ouch~TuborgP and a point for you.
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