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Like I said, I have no pitty for someone that lives in a very very high cost of living area. If they are struggling that much, they should move.
I understand your feelings and have said the same thing in other threads but that's not what this thread started out about. My read is that people were sharing their salary and relative standard of living as the OP was asking.
1. You take home your base salary of $84K for working 9-10 months a year. The annualized equivilant salary for someone working 12 months a year would be $101k
2. Plus you get a rich benefit package, a generous pension and lets not forget tenure which means iron clad job security.
3. Despite all your long hours when school is in session you are still working what, 40-42 weeks a year?
4. Your "extra work" is just that - extra. You could take a year off from doing it or drop it entirely if you wish and be out the door at 2:33pm. How many private sector workers do you think can do that? "Sorry boss, My boys in little league this season. I'm gonna drop calling on those extra customers on my sales route, 'kay?"
How many people in the private sector do you think are getting a deal close to the one you outlined? I guarntee none of them that do are bellyaching they are underpaid the way teachers do.
You mention that you have to work with different personalities, attitudes, etc. Who does'nt? Everyone has a jerk boss or customer or VP or co-worker or client in their worklife. That's life. You think teachers are alone in that? Your post also talks of the extra hours you work. This is something I hear constantly from teachers - "We have to bring work home" Guess what - who does'nt? All my friends with serious professional jobs bring work home or go into the office on weekends, etc. As for your inability to move, who's fault's that? That would be the union who sets up the rules and makes most places closed shops. If that's such an issue for teachers have the unions change the CBA's.
Look, I don't disagree that teachers deserve a fair wage. But its simple risk & reward economics. You stand little risk of losing your job so that security means you should recieve less pay. Given the dollars you say teachers are making, the generous benefits they receive, the shortened work year and combine this with the security they enjoy it adds up to teachers in CA are overpaid.
(And I am not even getting into the results we get for that money in many of our schools.... That's a whole other thread)
All the public hears from the CTA is "Our teachers are underpaided. Is'nt it terrible we don't get paid more? After all, the children are our future!"
Phooey!
So if I am understanding you correctly, you are upset that teachers get paid well for basically working not as hard as the private sector workers?
If you answerd yes to that question, then you are more than invited to visit some of our inner city schools, not just a day but for a week, and try and teach them all of the standards that CA has mandated.
It sounds like to me since you said you aren't seeing the results for what your taxes are paying for, you can do a better job that teachers. It takes a special person to deal with people's kids all day, and most people know that. I hear it all of the time when parents just come to visit for 15 mins. They tell me Mr. Redd, I don't know how you do it. When a person hasn't walked in a teachers shoes or sees what teachers deal with on a daily basis, I go phooey as well.
I understand your feelings and have said the same thing in other threads but that's not what this thread started out about. My read is that people were sharing their salary and relative standard of living as the OP was asking.
1. You take home your base salary of $84K for working 9-10 months a year. The annualized equivilant salary for someone working 12 months a year would be $101k
I am a teacher and I wish I made $84K. I started out at $27K here in AZ.
2. Plus you get a rich benefit package, a generous pension and lets not forget tenure which means iron clad job security.
Here in AZ, there is no tenure. Many teachers are losing their jobs. I am losing my job and will likely change careers.
3. Despite all your long hours when school is in session you are still working what, 40-42 weeks a year?
Teachers do have a generous amount of time off. It is tough dealing with kids who are raising themselves, so we kind of need it.
4. Your "extra work" is just that - extra. You could take a year off from doing it or drop it entirely if you wish and be out the door at 2:33pm. How many private sector workers do you think can do that? "Sorry boss, My boys in little league this season. I'm gonna drop calling on those extra customers on my sales route, 'kay?"
How many people in the private sector do you think are getting a deal close to the one you outlined? I guarntee none of them that do are bellyaching they are underpaid the way teachers do.
I think there are people in every profession that complain a lot. Truthfully, anyone who still has a job in this economy should be very thankful.
You mention that you have to work with different personalities, attitudes, etc. Who does'nt? Everyone has a jerk boss or customer or VP or co-worker or client in their worklife. That's life. You think teachers are alone in that? Your post also talks of the extra hours you work. This is something I hear constantly from teachers - "We have to bring work home" Guess what - who does'nt? All my friends with serious professional jobs bring work home or go into the office on weekends, etc. As for your inability to move, who's fault's that? That would be the union who sets up the rules and makes most places closed shops. If that's such an issue for teachers have the unions change the CBA's.
Teachers can move and do it all the time. Like I said before anyone with a job in this economy should be very thankful. This is coming from a soon to be unemployed teacher.
Look, I don't disagree that teachers deserve a fair wage. But its simple risk & reward economics. You stand little risk of losing your job so that security means you should recieve less pay. Given the dollars you say teachers are making, the generous benefits they receive, the shortened work year and combine this with the security they enjoy it adds up to teachers in CA are overpaid.
I do not think teachers are over paid. I do think that teachers chose to be in this profession knowing how much money they would make. It is not like we spent four years of college having our professors telling us we would get rich doing this job. Most of my professors told me that 50% of teachers leave within 7 years because they learn it is tough to live on this salary. That being said we could have chose to leave the program and go into something where we make more money. I am likely going to leave teaching. I think if they are teachers who are unhappy with their job, then they should join me in leaving the profession.
(And I am not even getting into the results we get for that money in many of our schools.... That's a whole other thread)
All the public hears from the CTA is "Our teachers are underpaided. Is'nt it terrible we don't get paid more? After all, the children are our future!"
You would think they would be more concerned about all these teachers losing their jobs. A friend of mine told me that they are raising class sizes to 42 in some districts in California. I don't think kids will be successful in class sizes that large.
I understand your feelings and have said the same thing in other threads but that's not what this thread started out about. My read is that people were sharing their salary and relative standard of living as the OP was asking.
This isn't really on the topic of salary, but I will say again (I have mentioned it before on these threads)......you can find such a climate change when going from school to school. I was in several awesome (inner city) LA schools and I was in a couple that I would NEVER recommend working in. Some of them literally next door to one another. It all comes down to the administration and the overall tone of the school.
Dawn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948
sounds right, every been to an LA school? its not enough.
Perhaps the question that is relevant to California salaries TODAY is:
How can teachers in California have the highest salaries and the state be teetering on the brink of bankruptcy at the same time?
The state still has to educate kids, so us Californians get a higher tax bill, which they are trying to do anyway. LA teachers just agreed because of the State Crisis to increase their class sizes up to 42 students, yes 42. Now how can anyone be effective with that many kids in one classroom.
What will be next-50-1 teacher student ratio when the economy gets even worse? Then, when the test scores plummet, which by the way have been steadily rising since the No Child Left Behind Bill passed, I guess the teacher bashers will be even happier and want to see public education privatized, since private schools will certainly be a better and best option.
The state still has to educate kids, so us Californians get a higher tax bill, which they are trying to do anyway. LA teachers just agreed because of the State Crisis to increase their class sizes up to 42 students, yes 42. Now how can anyone be effective with that many kids in one classroom.
What will be next-50-1 teacher student ratio when the economy gets even worse? Then, when the test scores plummet, which by the way have been steadily rising since the No Child Left Behind Bill passed, I guess the teacher bashers will be even happier and want to see public education privatized, since private schools will certainly be a better and best option.
I understand all of that, is it going to stave off bankruptcy? Would lower class sizes gained by lower salaries be a possibility? Should American tax payers help bail out the state with the highest teacher salaries to help maintain those salaries? That is a question that might soon be asked. California Seeks U.S. Help With Budget Borrowing (Update1) - Bloomberg.com
May 14 (Bloomberg) -- California asked the U.S. Treasury for help with sales of short-term notes as the recession threatens to force the most-populous state to borrow as much as $23 billion to pay its bills.
The federal government should use the Troubled Asset Relief Program to buy the notes of any state that defaults, California Treasurer Bill Lockyer said in a letter to Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner yesterday that was released by his office. A guarantee would make it easier for states to purchase the bond insurance policies they need to attract investors.
“If we cannot obtain our usual short-term cash flow borrowings there could be devastating impacts on the ability of the state or other governments to provide essential services to their citizens,” Lockyer said. “Such a scenario could also cause major disruption to financial markets.”
His proposal, unveiled yesterday as part of the annual May budget revision, calls for the state to sell $6 billion of revenue anticipation warrants at the start of the fiscal year in July. More short-term borrowing would be needed later in the year, he said, calling for $6 billion to be cut from state programs, mostly linked to schools, colleges and welfare.
The proposals are an attempt to resolve a $15.4 billion deficit, an amount that would swell to $21 billion if voters on May 19 reject a package of budget balancing measures he and lawmakers put on the ballot. The worsening economy is forcing Schwarzenegger to open a new fight over the budget three months after he slashed spending and raised taxes by $12 billion in a failed bid to close what was a record gap.
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