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Old 06-18-2010, 01:07 PM
 
15,762 posts, read 13,199,215 times
Reputation: 19651

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TracySam View Post
I never said the bellyaching and complaining from teachers is here on this board. It's every single teacher I know in both PA and NJ. They complain about it all the time. Their spouses do to.
Then after hearing this so much from teachers, non-teachers around PA and NJ who don't know the facts talk about it all the time as if it's fact.

They mention it here and there as a "given" that teachers are very underpaid. So I posted this link so that perhaps a few people would look up the facts and stop making such claims.

Maybe it's just an NJ and eastern PA thing. Maybe teachers in the rest of the country never complain. Must be just geography and the circles I move in.

But I somehow doubt that. We hear it in the media, on TV shows, in general conversation all the time. How often do you hear "...and on a teacher's salary" or "..and you know what a teacher's salary is like"? As if everyone accepts that teachers are tossed a few peanuts for all their hard work. Some probably are underpaid for their performance, but most, at least in my geographic area, are not.

I am a teacher in NJ, and based one my certifications, my education and my earning potential in industry I AM underpaid. But I do not complain about it ever since it was a choice I made to take the lower pay for more stability.

As a matter of fact I can make the same claim you can. I have never had or heard a conversation where teachers have ever complained that they are not making enough money. And I would guarantee I know more teachers than you do. That would be like police officers complaining that their job is too dangerous, they go into knowing that just as teachers do.

But you need to understand the difference between acknowledging that many of us are paid less than our counterparts and complaining about it. I live in a very old house, that is an acknowledgment of a fact not a complaint that I think I deserve to live in a newer house.
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Old 06-18-2010, 02:38 PM
 
Location: Bar Harbor, ME
1,922 posts, read 3,668,672 times
Reputation: 1287
Quote:
Originally Posted by TracySam View Post
I never said the bellyaching and complaining from teachers is here on this board. It's every single teacher I know in both PA and NJ. They complain about it all the time. Their spouses do to.
Then after hearing this so much from teachers, non-teachers around PA and NJ who don't know the facts talk about it all the time as if it's fact.

They mention it here and there as a "given" that teachers are very underpaid. So I posted this link so that perhaps a few people would look up the facts and stop making such claims.

Maybe it's just an NJ and eastern PA thing. Maybe teachers in the rest of the country never complain. Must be just geography and the circles I move in.

But I somehow doubt that. We hear it in the media, on TV shows, in general conversation all the time. How often do you hear "...and on a teacher's salary" or "..and you know what a teacher's salary is like"? As if everyone accepts that teachers are tossed a few peanuts for all their hard work. Some probably are underpaid for their performance, but most, at least in my geographic area, are not.
I live in southeastern PA. I've been here for 33 years. I've never heard teachers in mydistrict complain about their salaries. NEVER.
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Old 06-18-2010, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Marion, IA
2,796 posts, read 5,364,665 times
Reputation: 1576
Quote:
Originally Posted by ki0eh View Post
Well I just looked up my daughter's kindergarten teacher and her salary is $41,376 with 6 years in service. For a district that's still HALF DAY kindergarten = twice the kids. In what is considered the wealthiest district in the county if not in this part of the state. I'm surprised it's that low, frankly.
OMFG. $41,000 to work HALF the time and supervise a bunch of 5 year olds?!?!?!?! Honestly, what can you be teaching a bunch of kindergardteners that is so freakin difficult.
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Old 06-18-2010, 03:32 PM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
32,161 posts, read 39,263,926 times
Reputation: 40654
Quote:
Originally Posted by zz4guy View Post
OMFG. $41,000 to work HALF the time and supervise a bunch of 5 year olds?!?!?!?! Honestly, what can you be teaching a bunch of kindergardteners that is so freakin difficult.
You don't understand the 1/2 day Kindergarten model- up to 30 kids in the AM, up to another 30 in the PM, many of whom can't yet tie their shoes, button their coats or control their bowels and bladders when excited.
As you seem to be the expert on classroom issues without being a teacher I think you need to do a week long teaching internship somewhere and add to your knowledge base. Maybe Kindergarten, maybe a 9th grade resource class (since you're the expert here I don't have to tell you that means you have regular ed kids and mainstreamed Special Ed kids in the same class, usually about 33 or so total).
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Old 06-18-2010, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Marion, IA
2,796 posts, read 5,364,665 times
Reputation: 1576
I'm trying not to laugh..... LOL....
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Old 06-18-2010, 03:54 PM
 
15,762 posts, read 13,199,215 times
Reputation: 19651
Quote:
Originally Posted by zz4guy View Post
I'm trying not to laugh..... LOL....
Really?

Have you ever tried to babysit 2 or 3 5 year olds at a time? Now multiply that by 12, except now you have to teach them as well.

Kindergarten and early ed teachers earn their salaries hands down. They do not get any downtime during their jobs especially since most of them eat lunch with their kids. I do not think anyone can comprehend what that is like unless you have done it. They never get to get mad or yell as kids the way their own parents do. They need the patience of saints.

And you are loling. Just goes to show how little you know and even less you understand.
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Old 06-18-2010, 04:08 PM
 
29,464 posts, read 33,733,900 times
Reputation: 11098
Quote:
Originally Posted by zz4guy View Post
OMFG. $41,000 to work HALF the time and supervise a bunch of 5 year olds?!?!?!?! Honestly, what can you be teaching a bunch of kindergardteners that is so freakin difficult.
Do you want trained certified teachers forming the early years of schooling for your kids or not? Do you have kids? If not that might explain. However realize that some people value their children and want them to have a head start in school so they out perform other peoples children. That may not be your priority. Also half day doesn't mean another group doesn't come in for the afternoon. Do they?
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Old 06-18-2010, 04:10 PM
 
29,464 posts, read 33,733,900 times
Reputation: 11098
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
You don't understand the 1/2 day Kindergarten model- up to 30 kids in the AM, up to another 30 in the PM, many of whom can't yet tie their shoes, button their coats or control their bowels and bladders when excited.
As you seem to be the expert on classroom issues without being a teacher I think you need to do a week long teaching internship somewhere and add to your knowledge base. Maybe Kindergarten, maybe a 9th grade resource class (since you're the expert here I don't have to tell you that means you have regular ed kids and mainstreamed Special Ed kids in the same class, usually about 33 or so total).
Problem is that some folks aren't experts in theirs or any field and as such can't command much in the way of income. Notice little emphasis is placed on skill by some posters just hard work. We told them to study in school and some listened and others didn't.
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Old 06-18-2010, 04:13 PM
 
29,464 posts, read 33,733,900 times
Reputation: 11098
Quote:
Originally Posted by zz4guy View Post
I'm trying not to laugh..... LOL....
Don't laugh you probably don't live in that district so it doesn't impact your local taxes. I suspect the residents of that district are happy and willing to afford their children the best. Isn't that what it is all about? Parents providing the nurturing at home and then handing over their children to skilled professionals? Not all parents provide the nurturing and not all teachers are the skilled professionals. That's why caring parents with the assets approve tax expenditures to secure the best teachers for their district. Sorta like a mechanic. Good ones make a great living wage and others struggle at Jiffy Lube.
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Old 06-21-2010, 10:40 AM
 
9,209 posts, read 18,076,412 times
Reputation: 21953
You see, that's the problem. If higher pay meant better teachers, then I'm all for that. But it just isn't the case in the real world.

Like I said above, people in all professions should be paid according to their performance. Not an artificial pay scale, not according to what some union negotiated, not according to tenure. Performance, period.

I'm sure there are plenty of teachers who are mediocre or even bad in the high-pay school districts, making well over 50 grand, while there are excellent teachers who work their butts off and whose students excel, and they are making peanuts. They can apply to get into those higher paying districts, but there aren't openings. They are filled by a lot of people protected by tenure who are mediocre at best.

You have the poor performing teachers making a bunch of money, taking up space in the higher-paying places, and no one can touch them because of tenure. So great teachers, taxpayers, and kids suffer while mediocrity rules the public schools.
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