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Does more money mean higher taxes? Just wondering as are millions of tax payers and voters!
Most likely. One has to consider the quality of the world we want our children to live in. There are some things worth spending money on. Educating hte next generation is one of them.
Most likely. One has to consider the quality of the world we want our children to live in. There are some things worth spending money on. Educating hte next generation is one of them.
That is for tax payers as voters to decide and they aren't seeing value for what they have already contributed. Do your really think the schools you see discussed so often in this forum are the world of tomorrow parents want for their kids?
That is for tax payers as voters to decide and they aren't seeing value for what they have already contributed. Do your really think the schools you see discussed so often in this forum are the world of tomorrow parents want for their kids?
No they aren't. That's why we need to spend the money to fix them. That's the point.
Yes the voters decide and we have said with our unwillingness to pay for education that it's not important. Sadly, it's really a choice between paying for education or paying for other things like jails and welfare. There is a financial pay off for educating our kids. Especially those in underprivilidged areas.
No they aren't. That's why we need to spend the money to fix them. That's the point.
Yes the voters decide and we have said with our unwillingness to pay for education that it's not important. Sadly, it's really a choice between paying for education or paying for other things like jails and welfare. There is a financial pay off for educating our kids. Especially those in underprivilidged areas.
My reality is that I have been hearing and involved in that arguement for clse to 40 years and guess what? The billions on billions spent on doing just that has produced what we have today. The need to spend is not a new argument. How about you can pay now or pay later. You know you can pay for education now or jails later. Guess what 20 years later we are paying through the nose for both of them.
It can't go both ways. One cannot agree that students do better in a wealthier school where the "PTA [has] deeper pockets," and "attracts better teachers," while simultaneously arguing that more money does not improve performance. As for your assertion that the "benefits for being affluent" should "encourag[e] folks to improve their condition in life," how do you propose students in failing schools, whose parents are products of the same failing schools, pull this off? What capital (intellectual, material, or example-wise) do they have to invest in upward mobility?
It can go both ways. Do students in affluent districts do better? Yes! Are there parents more successful? Yes! Are quality teachers perhaps attracted to affluence because of what it represents? Yes! A reality is that young people when they decide to go into education have a picture in their mind of what they will look like teaching and what their students will look like. They seek that out when they apply for jobs. The reason I posted the Shaker Heights links in one thread is for that reason. African American students are lagging behind their White counterparts in the very same suburban schools with the very same resources.
It can't go both ways. One cannot agree that students do better in a wealthier school where the "PTA [has] deeper pockets," and "attracts better teachers," while simultaneously arguing that more money does not improve performance. As for your assertion that the "benefits for being affluent" should "encourag[e] folks to improve their condition in life," how do you propose students in failing schools, whose parents are products of the same failing schools, pull this off? What capital (intellectual, material, or example-wise) do they have to invest in upward mobility?
Please explain It can't go both ways? Unless one is stuck in a particular ideology or point of view they should be looking at complex issues from the many variables and data points involved. That is simple objective analysis and is core to graduate training in most good programs. Engineers do it, Social Scientist do it, I even hear the birds in the tree's do it. Education is complex with many studies that are often conflicting and the variables immense. Isn't consideration of multiple possibilities a trait of being learned?
Again when you ask how do I propose students of failing schools who have parents who went to those schools pull it off? The same way I did and many class mates did. The same way millions of students who have graduated and suceeded from those schools have. We have just witnessed the greatest advancement for African Americans in the last 50 years. It saddens many of us how todays youth are throwing away what is being given them to succeed when we were successful with far less. My mother didn't graduate from high school but I graduated from college and have enough credits for a PHD. My dad was very smart but college was not in the cards back then. Yes very smart and had to work as waiter or in a factory or eventually the post office. But the key thing was working hard and not taking anything for free that he hadn't earned. I was not in a PHD program but took a bunch of courses beyond my Masters. The answer was not money but effort and taking advantage of the limited opportunities we had. Yeah life was rough in the 50's and 60's. Excuses are not solutions and money hasn't worked to this point. Many people want to teach folks who look like them and come from a similar background and money isn't part of the equation. I have listened to and made the money argument for years and have come to realize what we got was not the answer. The suburbs are now integrated and there is still the almight achievement gap and that is why NCLB requires data to be disaggregated so sub group poor performance is missed because the majority of students achieve and lift the schools overall scores.
My reality is that I have been hearing and involved in that arguement for clse to 40 years and guess what? The billions on billions spent on doing just that has produced what we have today. The need to spend is not a new argument. How about you can pay now or pay later. You know you can pay for education now or jails later. Guess what 20 years later we are paying through the nose for both of them.
All you have to do is compare wealthy districts to poor ones to see the impact of money. How much impact it makes depends on where the school is in the performance continuium. Poorer schools will see more improvements with added funds than richer ones. A school getting it's first computer lab will likely see bigger jumps than a school upgrading computers to a newer model.
It is pay now or pay later. Either you educate people so they can find gainful employment or you are paying for jails and higher welfare rolls later. In districts with better education things like teen pregnancy rates are lower. Society pays either way. Sadly they don't want to pay for prisons either so we just release them to the streets.
All you have to do is compare wealthy districts to poor ones to see the impact of money. How much impact it makes depends on where the school is in the performance continuium. Poorer schools will see more improvements with added funds than richer ones. A school getting it's first computer lab will likely see bigger jumps than a school upgrading computers to a newer model.
It is pay now or pay later. Either you educate people so they can find gainful employment or you are paying for jails and higher welfare rolls later. In districts with better education things like teen pregnancy rates are lower. Society pays either way. Sadly they don't want to pay for prisons either so we just release them to the streets.
You need to do the research and or work in affluent suburban school districts around major cities. African American and Hispanic students still lag behind in the very same integrated buildings. Asian student perform at the top. The issues are different as the situation is different from urban schools. Urban schools can hear the community cry unequal resources. Suburban schools tend to hear why are you discriminating against minority students. When the resources are the same. Go into many suburban schools and look at the make up of the AP/GT classes and compare that with the average or below average/special education students. There are law suits and OCR judgments based on disproportional classroom representation.
Take some time and read the research and resulting discussion from the Shaker Heights study. It is a major cornerstone of discussing African American student achievement.
All you have to do is compare wealthy districts to poor ones to see the impact of money. How much impact it makes depends on where the school is in the performance continuium. Poorer schools will see more improvements with added funds than richer ones. A school getting it's first computer lab will likely see bigger jumps than a school upgrading computers to a newer model.
It is pay now or pay later. Either you educate people so they can find gainful employment or you are paying for jails and higher welfare rolls later. In districts with better education things like teen pregnancy rates are lower. Society pays either way. Sadly they don't want to pay for prisons either so we just release them to the streets.
Race Matters - Why Are Black Students Lagging
Professor Ogbu's latest conclusions are highlighted in a study of blacks in Shaker Heights, Ohio, an affluent Cleveland suburb whose school district is equally divided between blacks and whites. As in many racially integrated school districts, the black students have lagged behind whites in grade-point averages, test scores and placement in high-level classes. Professor Ogbu was invited by black parents in 1997 to examine the district's 5,000 students to figure out why.
"What amazed me is that these kids who come from homes of doctors and lawyers are not thinking like their parents; they don't know how their parents made it," Professor Ogbu said in an interview. "They are looking at rappers in ghettos as their role models, they are looking at entertainers. The parents work two jobs, three jobs, to give their children everything, but they are not guiding their children."
The article includes other opinions but you can see for yourself how often a lack of money is listed.
All you have to do is compare wealthy districts to poor ones to see the impact of money. How much impact it makes depends on where the school is in the performance continuium. Poorer schools will see more improvements with added funds than richer ones. A school getting it's first computer lab will likely see bigger jumps than a school upgrading computers to a newer model.
It is pay now or pay later. Either you educate people so they can find gainful employment or you are paying for jails and higher welfare rolls later. In districts with better education things like teen pregnancy rates are lower. Society pays either way. Sadly they don't want to pay for prisons either so we just release them to the streets.
The pay now or pay later is old and doesn't work any more. We tried that 25 years ago and spent money on schools and are now building jails at a record pace. We are spending twice. You leave yourself open when you suggest differences regarding teen pregnancy rates is because of school funding. I have read a lot from a lot of people including folks in white sheets who have other ideas. I know families where Grandma went to poor urban schools got a section 8 voucher moved to the suburbs and raised her kids there. Her kids are now on welfare and their illegitimate kids are flunking in school and going to jail. I know other families where Grandma and her section 8 voucher moved to the suburbs and her kids did well and the grand kids are in college. It was all about them and how they responded to life.
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