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Quote from ihynes:
"Most people stop going to school at 18? Do you live in the sticks? Most people I know have at least a 4-year college degree, if not more............................."
Other than my finding the "in the sticks" comment offensive everyone needs to read the following article and wrap your brain around the number of people with 4 year degrees in the US.
When I started this thread it was about teaching and the struggles that are inherent in that profession. It was not nor is any effort to say teachers are at the top of the challenged career profession. There are a number of professions that present challenges and there is and ought to be conversation on how to improve productivity in them. To try to compare while interesting does not help to bring about change or improvement. The challenge is to examine those different careers in such a way to improve the performance level of those employed. Teaching is teaching, nursing is nursing and safety is safety etc etc etc. The challenges in the varying job sectors at times are similar and at times very different. While teaching has isolation to deal with other professions have challenges educators don't. We do have solid benefits and still have pensions that out perform most other pensions. That should not be forgotten as our benefits are the result of others working and paying their taxes.
I understood that from the thread title. Such an article in an academic journal would probably list some of the issues and come up with solutions. However, this being the public forum that it is, people from all professions have jumped in. I think this has happened in part b/c several teachers have posted that teaching is the only profession for this, that and the other negative working condition. I think it has been determined that these are union talking points, however, most of them are wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa
For the record, I know very few fellow teachers, especially those of us who are younger, don't have children, and are new enough in the field that we're not making top dollar for the field yet. Most of us teach summer school (I teach year-round at a private school that has an all-summer session), and many do secondary jobs, besides. Most of my coworkers not only teach year-round, they have part-time jobs they go to when they leave. None of us could justify a summer without pay, etc.
This may be true of younger teachers, especially those who are single. However, the older, married teachers, male and female that I know, do not work in the summer, except perhaps to teach a 3 week summer "interim" or some such. I am talking about teachers who are married to other teachers. Nor do any of them work at second jobs. My kids once had a gymnastics coach who taught school during the day, and she was a w**** with the kids. She was just too tired to deal with kids three evenings a week, even though single. My daughter has a single teacher friend who works as a lifeguard during the summer; that is not a high wage job, it's more a way to keep busy and make a little money on the side.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarlaJane
I made statements emphasizing that teaching was more difficult than other professions in response to a poster who referred to teachers as "whiners" and "complainers" whose profession was no more difficult than any other, and teachers who "burn out" simply couldn't "hack it." That was why I said that it was obviously more difficult than other professions (i.e. the high burnout rate). However, I never said that there weren't other professions with difficult working conditions.
If you're referring to me, I didn't say that. I do think it's true that teaching is not the only profession with such issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
I went in expecting to be marketable because they were crying shortage only to find a glut of teachers and the only jobs available are in low paying charters or private schools. Sometimes, things don't live up to the hype.
They are not crying shortage here in Colorado.
Edit: I thought I quoted your post Ivorytickler, about who else works 7 hours in total isolation. I am going to respond to that now. First, I think it's a bit of hyperbole. I spent a lot of time in my kids' schools when they wre in school, and know a number of teachers. The teacher's lounge always had some teachers in it. The elementary teachers get some time off when their students go to music, art, PE, etc. The secondary teachers get planning periods, 2 out of 7 at my kids' high school. Then there is lunch. Do teachers not have phones in the rooms?
You asked "who else" so I will tell you of my experiences as a visiting nurse. For the majority of the day, we were out in our cars or in our patients' homes. There were no quick trips to the supply closet if you forgot something. There was no other professional in the home to help us. We learned to improvise, and to be organized. We went into some "sketchy" neighborhoods.
This was all before the days of cell phones. If we needed to call the office, we had to find a pay phone or use the patient's phone (if they had one). If the office needed to get hold of us, they called our patients' homes. In the last job I had, we carried a pager on weekends, but we still had to find a phone to call back in.
That's all I'll say about nursing, and I hope everyone takes this in the spirit it was intended, that is, to answer a question.
While I have a phone in my room, I am not free to pick it up and call another teacher during a class or during one of their classes. In my school, there are 8 periods on a rotating block. I get a prep every other day. I, usually, call parents on my prep. The only teachers who had prep the same time I did, last year, were a special ed teacher and the spanish teacher so I am not free to collaborate with peers during my prep. The spanish teacher just wasn't a good person to talk to about difficulties I was having in labs. Just because a teacher has a prep hour doesn't mean there are peers available to work with during that hour and not all teachers get a prep, which was one reason so few were available during mine. I get a prep because they only have so many chemistry and physics classes they can offer and I need one for lab set ups. So, yes, I work 7 hours a day in isolation from my peers even with a prep.
As a teacher, I try very hard to be organized and not need anything during the day. If something doesn't go right, I have to improvise. It will be my prep or the end of the day, whichever comes first, until I'll be able to get something.
I imagine that most of you who have gone into teaching had at least an a basis understanding of what you were getting yourself into. YOU MADE THE CHOICE TO BECOME A TEACHER ANYWAY. The only person responsibhle for your dis-satisfaction is yourself. It has nothing to do with how you spend your time, and how are treated by the public and the students, how much you are paid, etc. Your dis-satisfaction is a result of what you tell yourself about these things. You made the CHOICE to be a teacher. Now you owe it to yourself to make it a happy choice. If you are unhappy about that choice, change your thoughts about being a teacher, or change your profession. It's is very unlikely that teachers role in society will change for the better anytime in the near future. For better or worse, it is what it is. Now find a way to be happy about what it is. Good Luck!
Not so sure that most people going into teaching knew what they were getting into. Students going into teaching do not fully represent all of the varying schools and classrooms in the country. They tend to be students who did well in and enjoyed school and went to class with others who did. Wonder how many get a job teaching in the environment they pictured when they decided to become a teacher?
Quote from ihynes:
"Most people stop going to school at 18? Do you live in the sticks? Most people I know have at least a 4-year college degree, if not more............................."
Other than my finding the "in the sticks" comment offensive everyone needs to read the following article and wrap your brain around the number of people with 4 year degrees in the US.
People might want to consider that the original quote was not a reflection of current graduates only but the full spectrum of Americans alive today and that includes people in their 90's. I dare say that the number of people continuing beyond age 18 which for most is the first year of college( you do the math) is much greater today compared to 50 years ago. In light of this discussion you need to consider probably the full spectrum of the American work force which is up to what you say 70 ish? Just because most of the people you know have a degree doesn't mean that your circle reflects the population at large.
Not a teacher however I have worked with a High School music program and also with a high school special education program and from what I have seen is that the biggest reason for burnout is parents and administration. Usually the teachers love helping and teaching kids but they don't want to deal with parents unreasonable demands for special treatment. Also, administrators are always imposing the newest fad in education that just adds busy work for the teachers.
Being in the classroom with kids is what many teachers look forward to. They dread having parent teacher conferences or going to a meeting where a new pointless policy is enacted. The best teachers have to be willing to fight just so they can teach. Either that or be a mediocre teacher and burn out quickly.
Not so sure that most people going into teaching knew what they were getting into. Students going into teaching do not fully represent all of the varying schools and classrooms in the country. They tend to be students who did well in and enjoyed school and went to class with others who did. Wonder how many get a job teaching in the environment they pictured when they decided to become a teacher?
Exactly, although I was a poor student in high school. We had a new teacher this past year who was a graduate of the school, he'd been one of my students. Along about Nov. he asked me if his class had been like what he was teaching: disconnected, reading problems, all the ills you read about. I pointed out to him that he'd always been in TAG classes, then took AP in high school, NHS, various academic awards and then got a free ride to one of the HBUC Ivies. He'd always been with the high achievers and very rarely, if ever, with average or below average kids. The light went on.
Not so sure that most people going into teaching knew what they were getting into. Students going into teaching do not fully represent all of the varying schools and classrooms in the country. They tend to be students who did well in and enjoyed school and went to class with others who did. Wonder how many get a job teaching in the environment they pictured when they decided to become a teacher?
I went into teaching because I didn't do well in high school. I was a late bloomer. I didn't start college until I was 25.
I do not have a job in the environment I pictured. I expect to have a fully stocked lab not an ill equipped classroom that ins't fit for a chemistry classroom that doubles as a lab. I pictured what I had in high school.
Not a teacher however I have worked with a High School music program and also with a high school special education program and from what I have seen is that the biggest reason for burnout is parents and administration. Usually the teachers love helping and teaching kids but they don't want to deal with parents unreasonable demands for special treatment. Also, administrators are always imposing the newest fad in education that just adds busy work for the teachers.
Being in the classroom with kids is what many teachers look forward to. They dread having parent teacher conferences or going to a meeting where a new pointless policy is enacted. The best teachers have to be willing to fight just so they can teach. Either that or be a mediocre teacher and burn out quickly.
Sounds like they want to sell their product without having to deal with the consumers paying for it or the sales management team.
I went into teaching because I didn't do well in high school. I was a late bloomer. I didn't start college until I was 25.
I do not have a job in the environment I pictured. I expect to have a fully stocked lab not an ill equipped classroom that ins't fit for a chemistry classroom that doubles as a lab. I pictured what I had in high school.
Remember my comments about being in the same environment for so long. Even if the roles are different the expectations as teacher may be influenced by the experiences as a student. There are reasons why this thread was started.
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