Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I would wonder if there was another side to this that we are not hearing had the OP not posted her first thread back in April when she was contemplating taking this job. That wasn't an outraged, screwed-over attitude type post. It was inquisitive because she was uncomfortable with the prospect of wearing the required uniform.
I think had the administration told her at that April interview that this is the outfit, take it or leave it, then the ball was in her court to stay or go. But they did negotiate with her and agree to a different garment. That substitution garment offer was rescinded-- without notification to the OP, who clearly expressed her reluctance to wear it at the April meeting-- and she showed up for the luncheon to an even worse uniform than originally stated: plaid versus the original navy blue.
I have sympathy for the OP. I would be mortified and willing to face the fallout of postponing graduation to walk away from that internship. Not everyone would support or take that option but one has to do what they are comfortable with and live with the consequences of that decision.
I think the policy is ridiculous but I realize that that is not the point here. The point is, if this is the only internship she can get because of the late hour and she feels hoodwinked because they agreed-- and then revoked-- a compromise outfit, that she will never truly fit in at that school, nor will the administration embrace her like "family" and offer her a permanent position there.
I think that this is a situation that's gone from odd to flat out strange. I suggested a few pages back to alter the jumper at the tailor. If you have to wear knee socks (gosh, that's nuts!) I would wear hose underneath. Take THAT.
I would wonder if there was another side to this that we are not hearing had the OP not posted her first thread back in April when she was contemplating taking this job. That wasn't an outraged, screwed-over attitude type post. It was inquisitive because she was uncomfortable with the prospect of wearing the required uniform.
I think had the administration told her at that April interview that this is the outfit, take it or leave it, then the ball was in her court to stay or go. But they did negotiate with her and agree to a different garment. That substitution garment offer was rescinded-- without notification to the OP, who clearly expressed her reluctance to wear it at the April meeting-- and she showed up for the luncheon to an even worse uniform than originally stated: plaid versus the original navy blue.
I have sympathy for the OP. I would be mortified and willing to face the fallout of postponing graduation to walk away from that internship. Not everyone would support or take that option but one has to do what they are comfortable with and live with the consequences of that decision.
I think the policy is ridiculous but I realize that that is not the point here. The point is, if this is the only internship she can get because of the late hour and she feels hoodwinked because they agreed-- and then revoked-- a compromise outfit, that she will never truly fit in at that school, nor will the administration embrace her like "family" and offer her a permanent position there.
Well said with a lot of good thoughts and questions her advisor might know the answer to. I can tell you the marriage of student teacher to school can be with difficulty. A student teacher can be told by the advisor nothing can be done only to find out one day a new placement is awaiting them. Her advisor must act indifferent for a number of reasons and can't do anything to increase her annoyance if a change isn't made. She may be surprised one day soon. It does happen. If another possibility is to exist she needs to not be going public about this one. The new school being approached is going to know there is a problem at this stage of the game and needs to be assured the candidate will be fine with them. Will she in the eyes of her advisor?
Just to sum it up, I took a student teaching internship at a Catholic high school despite my reservations regarding their rule requiring student-teaching interns to wear a uniform, even though hired faculty don't wear uniforms.
The uniform they wanted me to wear was the school's traditional navy-blue sleeveless jumper dress - the same one female students have worn for the past forty-years. After expressing my concerns to the assistant principal, I *thought* we had agreed to a compromise where they were going to allow me to wear a uniform skort instead, which is like a uniform skirt with shorts sewn in underneath.
Even this compromise made me feel uneasy after being reassured I would get used to it.
Fast forward to this morning when I went down to school to meet with my hosting teacher to pick up the uniform clothing that was ordered, and attend a meet-and-greet luncheon with parents.
To my utter shock, the assistant principal unexplainably ordered not one, not two, not three, but four PLAID jumpers for me. My hosting teacher basically said the assistant principal re-thought the idea of a skort because the girls all wear jumpers. So the assistant principal decided to order jumpers, but make them plaid instead of navy so that I wouldn't match the girls exactly.
To say that I am upset about this doesn't come close to expressing the extent of my anger over this situation.
Whoa a minute. I went back to your original thread and read what you wrote in May. If you knew they did this to weed out those who really wanted to work with them from those who wanted a stepping stone you knew the deal back then. Your coop teacher told you the deal and you shared it in the thread. Do you want a job with them or not? Have you now blown it? It is their price for the honor of being offered a job with them. Here is what you wrote in May:
I met this week with my cooperating teacher and had a lengthy discussion about my concerns with her. I told her my main concern is that the students won't see me as a teacher, and won't respect my position. She promised me that students are not concerned about the student teacher dress code, and that the students will be very welcoming to me. Off the record, she said she wouldn't have an issue with me following their teachers' dress code, but that she is not part of the administration who sets policy for what student teachers are required to wear.
She said one of the reasons for the policy is to weed out potential student teachers who just want to go through their program as a steppingstone to work somewhere else when they graduate. As a Catholic school, they have limited resources, and want to cultivate student teachers who are likely to want to work with them in the future upon graduation.
If there was a variety to the uniform like in some schools, I would feel better about it. This uniform looks very dated and traditional, and there is no mixing and matching. She offered to ask the administration on my behalf if they would allow me some variation while still keeping with the general look of their uniform.
There may be more tests forthcoming are you up to the process? Remember it is the church and that order may have their own rituals of process for joining the family.
Back when the original thread was running in April/May the order was identified by the OP. She stated it was Sisters of the Holy Family. Is it possible word got back to the order and when it did the directive came down stating no change in uniform policy at any of their schools. Going public and identifying the order may have proven to be the critical blow turning them against her. Don't know but airing it in a forum is airing it in public and in this situation with the power all in their hands is that wise?
TuborgP,
All that you said is correct about April. But they subsequently agreed to make the uniform more of a skort, and everyone seemed to feel okay about doing that under the circumstances. It was a shock two weeks ago when I arrived on my first day for orientation, and they had this new plaid jumper waiting there for me.
I am still assigned a cooperating teacher, that hasn't changed. It's just that now I also have to meet with a counselor in the mornings on top of my other responsibilities. I thought a lot about what you and golfgal posted, and I really feel threatened that my teaching career could be tanked over this. As far as my advisor goes, he seems to want to preserve his relationship with the Catholic school as opposed to pushing my concerns too far. He told me that others have worn uniforms to student teach there in the past, but it was not the same uniform they have me in. He has no idea why that changed.
I'll admit I acted emotionally that first Friday when I wore blue slacks for the library project. Wearing the jumper was not at all good for working in the library, and I had these two seniors loitering over me for most of that Wednesday and Thursday while I moved books and materials. Much of that time I had to be low on the floor either sitting or squatting, and the hem was constantly creeping mid-thigh. I knew they were eyeballing me when I wasn't looking directly at them. What also got to me is I think one of them took a quick photo of me with his camera phone from behind while I was reaching for some books. I can't prove it, so I didn't confront him. My frustrations had boiled to the surface by the end of that week when I did what I did. In hindsight, I realize it wasn't the appropriate way to handle it. I just felt my self-respect shrinking daily at that point.
As far as my looks, yes I have long legs and have been complimented on my appearance in terms of being generally attractive. Since you asked, I posted a photo of a woman whos body is extremely similar to mine. My hair is longer than hers, but my appearance resembles hers very closely, especially the legs and hips. I can't tell what her chest is like. My bust is large - 38dd. I honestly think one of the reasons they chose a jumper for me is my bust. In theory, jumpers flatten out the bust, but with me being 5'11", the largest size the jumper was available is for someone more like 5'8".
Notice how the model's dress is wrinkling because it's tight; that's how my jumper fits. It pulls tight like that becaues of my build. My chest, hips, and yes - backside, stretch the jumper out tight and make it ride up when I move around. Next, look at her calves. Mine are curved out like that too. I spend too much time constantly pulling those god-awful knee socks up nice and high like they are supposed to be worn. Where do you think a high school boy's eyes are going to go when I have to bend and make that adjustment?
I'm not trying to whine. I'm just trying to provide you an idea of how impractical wearing this uniform is for me at school. I am mortified when people look at me. It inhibits my confidence when interacting with people.
My morning meetings with the counselor are a whole other posting for sure. I'll tell you this...my assignment this weekend from him is to memorize a 20 line "Teacher's Prayer", that he expects me to be able to recite from memory when I see him tomorrow morning. There's more, but I'll leave it there.
In closing, TuborgP, I've read your postings, and I realize I should have handled things differently. I was emotional and stressed. I still am, but better now. They seemed like a caring group in April. I stand by that now. Honestly, the AP is not a jerk. He's following his orders from the principal who is an elderly nun. They have good intentions, but they really blindsided me with this plaid jumper with no prior warning, knowing my feelings from April.
Last edited by megansmom; 08-23-2009 at 06:38 PM..
there are several factors that are coming in to play in your situation. 1) Uniform issue/supposedly agreement made by the AP. 2) Lack of consideration and communication on the school's part by taking it upon themselves to order the uniforms without at the very least speaking to you about it after there was an agreement. 3) Assigning you to a counselor!!!
Is it me, or is there a pattern here. I feel like they are treating you more like a student than an intern. Yes, technically you are still a college student, but an internship is a transitional stage from student to professional.
4)Memorizing a "20 line teacher prayer? I am aware that it is a catholic school and at times you may have the responsibility to lead a prayer/prayers. But, how do you feel about it? Are you aspiring to teach at a catholic school? Are you a practicing catholic? The reason I ask is because if you are not, and you are basically doing the internship at the school to do an internship, memorizing prayers, uniform issues, counselor!!!, may be taking away from your actual learning experience as an intern.
Like I have stated before, you have 2 options; leave and do it somewhere else or at another time even though it may delay graduation. Or, suck it up and deal with the inconveniences; I feel there are quite a bit. However, only you know how much you can deal with.
Whatever you do, if you decide to leave, it is a good idea to leave sooner rather than later. If you do stay and endure the experience, well it may toughen you up and will help you deal with working in an uncomfortable work situation. You may look at the latter as a positive if you stick it out. Either way, I sincerely wish you luck in your decision/experience. Keep us posted.
TuborgP,
All that you said is correct about April. But they subsequently agreed to make the uniform more of a skort, and everyone seemed to feel okay about doing that under the circumstances. It was a shock two weeks ago when I arrived on my first day for orientation, and they had this new plaid jumper waiting there for me.
I am still assigned a cooperating teacher, that hasn't changed. It's just that now I also have to meet with a counselor in the mornings on top of my other responsibilities. I thought a lot about what you and golfgal posted, and I really feel threatened that my teaching career could be tanked over this. As far as my advisor goes, he seems to want to preserve his relationship with the Catholic school as opposed to pushing my concerns too far. He told me that others have worn uniforms to student teach there in the past, but it was not the same uniform they have me in. He has no idea why that changed.
I'll admit I acted emotionally that first Friday when I wore blue slacks for the library project. Wearing the jumper was not at all good for working in the library, and I had these two seniors loitering over me for most of that Wednesday and Thursday while I moved books and materials. Much of that time I had to be low on the floor either sitting or squatting, and the hem was constantly creeping mid-thigh. I knew they were eyeballing me when I wasn't looking directly at them. What also got to me is I think one of them took a quick photo of me with his camera phone from behind while I was reaching for some books. I can't prove it, so I didn't confront him. My frustrations had boiled to the surface by the end of that week when I did what I did. In hindsight, I realize it wasn't the appropriate way to handle it. I just felt my self-respect shrinking daily at that point.
As far as my looks, yes I have long legs and have been complimented on my appearance in terms of being generally attractive. Since you asked, I posted a photo of a woman whos body is extremely similar to mine. My hair is longer than hers, but my appearance resembles hers very closely, especially the legs and hips. I can't tell what her chest is like. My bust is large - 38dd. I honestly think one of the reasons they chose a jumper for me is my bust. In theory, jumpers flatten out the bust, but with me being 5'11", the largest size the jumper was available is for someone more like 5'8".
Notice how the model's dress is wrinkling because it's tight; that's how my jumper fits. It pulls tight like that becaues of my build. My chest, hips, and yes - backside, stretch the jumper out tight and make it ride up when I move around. Next, look at her calves. Mine are curved out like that too. I spend too much time constantly pulling those god-awful knee socks up nice and high like they are supposed to be worn. Where do you think a high school boy's eyes are going to go when I have to bend and make that adjustment?
I'm not trying to whine. I'm just trying to provide you an idea of how impractical wearing this uniform is for me at school. I am mortified when people look at me. It inhibits my confidence when interacting with people.
My morning meetings with the counselor are a whole other posting for sure. I'll tell you this...my assignment this weekend from him is to memorize a 20 line "Teacher's Prayer", that he expects me to be able to recite from memory when I see him tomorrow morning. There's more, but I'll leave it there.
In closing, TuborgP, I've read your postings, and I realize I should have handled things differently. I was emotional and stressed. I still am, but better now. They seemed like a caring group in April. I stand by that now. Honestly, the AP is not a jerk. He's following his orders from the principal who is an elderly nun. They have good intentions, but they really blindsided me with this plaid jumper with no prior warning, knowing my feelings from April.
I'm sorry, megansmom, but I find no fault in your behavior wrt this issue. You have behaved with as much professional decorum as has been humanly possible, especially given how unprofessionally others have been treating you. It is ridiculous for you to find any fault in your behavior. Like a rationale, adult professional, you calmly voiced your concerns and tried to reach a compromise, which the administrators agreed to then backed out of without even informing you. The people who are not behaving professionally are your administrators, not you.
I hesitate to encourage anyone who tries to make you feel guilty for having perfectly normal reactions to a completely abnormal situation. I will reiterate that I do not believe that this school has your best interests at heart (but rather their own) and is therefore not treating you fairly, and will continue to do so. This puts you in a very dangerous position.
I know that this is an extremely difficult time for you as there are very significant consequences no matter which choice you make. Thus, I will clarify. If you remain in this position, this school will give you either a good rec or a bad one. A bad rec will mean, essentially, that your year of student teaching does not count. It will also deter others from hiring you. If you are offered a teaching position, it will be b/c it is the kind of position no one else wants.
A good rec will be "she did everything that was expected/asked of her," i.e. she is obedient. Schools will offer you teaching positions with the expectation that you, again, be obedient and do as you are told.
If you leave this position (I would also change advisors, if possible), you can tell whomever you interview with exactly why you left the school (most teachers professionally state that the school "was not a good fit.") It will be more difficult to find another internship, as many schools will be put off by your "strong" personality. But if and when you do find a school that empathizes with your decision to leave, I imagine that you will be very happy at that school and remain there for a very long time.
And just remember that, no matter what decision you make, your CityData forums will always be here to listen!
TuborgP,
All that you said is correct about April. But they subsequently agreed to make the uniform more of a skort, and everyone seemed to feel okay about doing that under the circumstances. It was a shock two weeks ago when I arrived on my first day for orientation, and they had this new plaid jumper waiting there for me.
I am still assigned a cooperating teacher, that hasn't changed. It's just that now I also have to meet with a counselor in the mornings on top of my other responsibilities. I thought a lot about what you and golfgal posted, and I really feel threatened that my teaching career could be tanked over this. As far as my advisor goes, he seems to want to preserve his relationship with the Catholic school as opposed to pushing my concerns too far. He told me that others have worn uniforms to student teach there in the past, but it was not the same uniform they have me in. He has no idea why that changed.
I'll admit I acted emotionally that first Friday when I wore blue slacks for the library project. Wearing the jumper was not at all good for working in the library, and I had these two seniors loitering over me for most of that Wednesday and Thursday while I moved books and materials. Much of that time I had to be low on the floor either sitting or squatting, and the hem was constantly creeping mid-thigh. I knew they were eyeballing me when I wasn't looking directly at them. What also got to me is I think one of them took a quick photo of me with his camera phone from behind while I was reaching for some books. I can't prove it, so I didn't confront him. My frustrations had boiled to the surface by the end of that week when I did what I did. In hindsight, I realize it wasn't the appropriate way to handle it. I just felt my self-respect shrinking daily at that point.
As far as my looks, yes I have long legs and have been complimented on my appearance in terms of being generally attractive. Since you asked, I posted a photo of a woman whos body is extremely similar to mine. My hair is longer than hers, but my appearance resembles hers very closely, especially the legs and hips. I can't tell what her chest is like. My bust is large - 38dd. I honestly think one of the reasons they chose a jumper for me is my bust. In theory, jumpers flatten out the bust, but with me being 5'11", the largest size the jumper was available is for someone more like 5'8".
Notice how the model's dress is wrinkling because it's tight; that's how my jumper fits. It pulls tight like that becaues of my build. My chest, hips, and yes - backside, stretch the jumper out tight and make it ride up when I move around. Next, look at her calves. Mine are curved out like that too. I spend too much time constantly pulling those god-awful knee socks up nice and high like they are supposed to be worn. Where do you think a high school boy's eyes are going to go when I have to bend and make that adjustment?
I'm not trying to whine. I'm just trying to provide you an idea of how impractical wearing this uniform is for me at school. I am mortified when people look at me. It inhibits my confidence when interacting with people.
My morning meetings with the counselor are a whole other posting for sure. I'll tell you this...my assignment this weekend from him is to memorize a 20 line "Teacher's Prayer", that he expects me to be able to recite from memory when I see him tomorrow morning. There's more, but I'll leave it there.
In closing, TuborgP, I've read your postings, and I realize I should have handled things differently. I was emotional and stressed. I still am, but better now. They seemed like a caring group in April. I stand by that now. Honestly, the AP is not a jerk. He's following his orders from the principal who is an elderly nun. They have good intentions, but they really blindsided me with this plaid jumper with no prior warning, knowing my feelings from April.
Excellent post and I now think I fully understand and have appreciation for. Are you Catholic? This seems like a very traditional order. In your previous posts you identified the order and my fear is this got back to them. If you are in New Orleans or California I suspect it did. It only takes one person or parent familiar with the order to share and the head nun was informed and for all we know someone within knowledge of their circle is monitoring this thread. That may be why the AP bailed out because of the comments being made about him by posters.
I'm sorry, megansmom, but I find no fault in your behavior wrt this issue. You have behaved with as much professional decorum as has been humanly possible, especially given how unprofessionally others have been treating you. It is ridiculous for you to find any fault in your behavior. Like a rationale, adult professional, you calmly voiced your concerns and tried to reach a compromise, which the administrators agreed to then backed out of without even informing you. The people who are not behaving professionally are your administrators, not you.
I hesitate to encourage anyone who tries to make you feel guilty for having perfectly normal reactions to a completely abnormal situation. I will reiterate that I do not believe that this school has your best interests at heart (but rather their own) and is therefore not treating you fairly, and will continue to do so. This puts you in a very dangerous position.
I know that this is an extremely difficult time for you as there are very significant consequences no matter which choice you make. Thus, I will clarify. If you remain in this position, this school will give you either a good rec or a bad one. A bad rec will mean, essentially, that your year of student teaching does not count. It will also deter others from hiring you. If you are offered a teaching position, it will be b/c it is the kind of position no one else wants.
A good rec will be "she did everything that was expected/asked of her," i.e. she is obedient. Schools will offer you teaching positions with the expectation that you, again, be obedient and do as you are told.
If you leave this position (I would also change advisors, if possible), you can tell whomever you interview with exactly why you left the school (most teachers professionally state that the school "was not a good fit.") It will be more difficult to find another internship, as many schools will be put off by your "strong" personality. But if and when you do find a school that empathizes with your decision to leave, I imagine that you will be very happy at that school and remain there for a very long time.
And just remember that, no matter what decision you make, your CityData forums will always be here to listen!
References from the City-Data won't help her find a job after she graduates nor or the threads good material for her portfolio.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
