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Old 09-18-2009, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,391 posts, read 29,501,513 times
Reputation: 14480

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jps-teacher View Post
P.S. I take it seriously. So, when you complain (observe) that you have no chemistry text books, I ask if you want some donated, because I have a source that can probably supply them, it is because I take you at your word.

I take it seriously. So, when you describe your situation and your question, I respond seriously - and when you express what I consider bigoted opinions, or make untrue claims, I presume you believe them and challenge them.

Clearly, you don't have to take it seriously, and since I do, you can have all the fun with me that you want to, I am sure. But, regardless, I'll presume you are sincere, whether you are or not, until I have good reason to believe otherwise.
In cyberspace, you can choose to discuss the issue at hand or not discuss it but you're a fool if you think everyone in cyberspace represents themselves as they really are. Studies have shown we're bolder in cyberspace and more open in cyberspace. We feel there is safety in the fact we can log off or, worst case, quit using one ID and create another one. We can risk rejection in cyberspace and deal it out more because there is little risk.

If an issue is posted, you're free to discuss it or ignore it if you don't think it's real. That is your choice. You're also free to ignore anyone in cyberspace who bugs you. In fact, there's a neat little ignore feature that makes all of their posts invisible to you.
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Old 09-18-2009, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Eastern time zone
4,469 posts, read 6,126,309 times
Reputation: 3481
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
In fact, there's a neat little ignore feature that makes all of their posts invisible to you.
Sadly, it doesn't make them go away when others quote them. Which renders the whole thing rather useless-- rather like watching a creepy movie between splayed fingers.
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Old 09-18-2009, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,391 posts, read 29,501,513 times
Reputation: 14480
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aconite View Post
Sadly, it doesn't make them go away when others quote them. Which renders the whole thing rather useless-- rather like watching a creepy movie between splayed fingers.
Yeah, I know but I find that serves as a reminder as to why I have certain people on ignore anyway.
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Old 09-18-2009, 07:14 PM
 
2,180 posts, read 3,172,144 times
Reputation: 838
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Nope I claimed that popular opinion might not match what research finds. I didn't claim people don't know what they feel/think. I claimed that them feeling it doesn't mean it's the right thing. You need to look at blind research studies to find what is right.

We're talking about my personal feelings about me. There is no right or wrong here. I feel what I do about myself. Period. Research isn't going to prove I feel otherwise .

You really love to just twist things around, don't you?
No, I am not twisting anything, Ivory.

I posted a poll about PERSONAL FEELINGS and EXPERIENCES from students whose teachers had left abruptly, midterm. I posted QUOTES ABOUT THEIR EXPERIENCES.

You poo-pooed my posts with exactly the words I responded with. Go back and read it. You're wrong.

I was talking about personal experiences, not popular opinion. I tried to point this out to you several times.

You may have meant to be disparaging public opinions, but since both the poll and the quotes were about the students' own experiences, there was no way for anybody but you to know that was what you meant - if you really did.
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Old 09-18-2009, 07:51 PM
 
29,357 posts, read 33,427,666 times
Reputation: 10983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Yeah, I know but I find that serves as a reminder as to why I have certain people on ignore anyway.
My Gosh, most people could have quit and been hired six times when compared to the length of this thread. How many posts does it take to get a yes or no answer to your OP?
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Old 09-19-2009, 04:20 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,391 posts, read 29,501,513 times
Reputation: 14480
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
My Gosh, most people could have quit and been hired six times when compared to the length of this thread. How many posts does it take to get a yes or no answer to your OP?
Well, I could have posted a poll but what fun would that be?

Honestly, I'm curious as to why teachers are expected, and they are by many, to pass on opportunities to improve their own lives because of timing when other professionals are not. Seems to me there's a double standard here.

IMO, if your current employer won't match an offer, it's "see ya". (Actually, I wouldn't even stay if they did. The only offer you should always refuse is a counter offer because, most likely, you'll just get fired later for daring to put management in the position they had to make one. Of course it will be convenient to managment when they do. ) No one is going to take care of me and mine except me and I know it.

In this economy, this thread was time for six rejection letters.
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Old 09-19-2009, 07:31 AM
 
2,180 posts, read 3,172,144 times
Reputation: 838
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Well, I could have posted a poll but what fun would that be?

Honestly, 1) I'm curious as to why teachers are expected, and they are by many, to pass on opportunities to improve their own lives because of timing when other professionals are not. Seems to me there's a double standard here.

IMO, if your current employer won't match an offer, it's "see ya". (Actually, I wouldn't even stay if they did. The only offer you should always refuse is a counter offer because, most likely, you'll just get fired later for daring to put management in the position they had to make one. Of course it will be convenient to managment when they do. ) 2) No one is going to take care of me and mine except me and I know it.

In this economy, this thread was time for six rejection letters.
1) And you've been told why. You simply reject the answer - to you, there is nothing special about teaching, it's just another job and teachers are interchangeable. To many others, both in and out of the field (and including some of those hiring the teaching staffs), teaching is not just another job, and teachers are not interchangeable.

2) You and I have different experiences of life. Five years ago, when I was working only half-time (not by choice), I was putting a lot of volunteer time into a couple groups of adolescents. One of the founders of one of the group watched what I was doing, and offered me a half-time salary - just to keep doing what I was already doing, for both that group and the other.

My first public school teaching position I learned about from the parents of some kids I tutored, who approached me to ask me to apply to teach at the school their kids attended. My current position came about not dissimilarly.

So, perhaps you will understand why my perspective is otherwise - people have been working to help me and mine for decades, just as I work to try to take care of them.
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Old 09-19-2009, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,391 posts, read 29,501,513 times
Reputation: 14480
Quote:
Originally Posted by jps-teacher View Post
1) And you've been told why. You simply reject the answer - to you, there is nothing special about teaching, it's just another job and teachers are interchangeable. To many others, both in and out of the field (and including some of those hiring the teaching staffs), teaching is not just another job, and teachers are not interchangeable.

2) You and I have different experiences of life. Five years ago, when I was working only half-time (not by choice), I was putting a lot of volunteer time into a couple groups of adolescents. One of the founders of one of the group watched what I was doing, and offered me a half-time salary - just to keep doing what I was already doing, for both that group and the other.

My first public school teaching position I learned about from the parents of some kids I tutored, who approached me to ask me to apply to teach at the school their kids attended. My current position came about not dissimilarly.

So, perhaps you will understand why my perspective is otherwise - people have been working to help me and mine for decades, just as I work to try to take care of them.
Yup, I reject the answer. I don't believe it's fair to expect a teacher to forgo professional advancement because someone else doesn't like the timing unless the people who expect it are making up the difference.

And no, there is nothing special about teaching over other professions like day care providers, nurses, doctors, etc, etc, etc... In one way or another all jobs serve the public.

And you helped you and yours by ... hmmmm... changing jobs... .... which is exactly what I'm trying to do.
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Old 09-19-2009, 02:28 PM
 
2,180 posts, read 3,172,144 times
Reputation: 838
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Yup, I reject the answer. I don't believe it's fair to expect a teacher to forgo professional advancement because someone else doesn't like the timing unless the people who expect it are making up the difference.

And no, there is nothing special about teaching over other professions like day care providers, nurses, doctors, etc, etc, etc... In one way or another all jobs serve the public.

And you helped you and yours by ... hmmmm... changing jobs... .... which is exactly what I'm trying to do.
1) You asked. You got answered. You don't think it's fair - life, as you have pointed out, is not fair.

2) You might want to consider whether your belief that teaching is not special mightn't be a factor in your difficulty in changing jobs. "Typos" could be a factor, too.

3) How you get from my first public school teaching position (more than 20 years ago, and 10+ years into my profession as a teacher) to my current job (which came after my last job in high tech, not after a teaching position) by assuming I was doing what you are trying to do is a good trick.

And, still and again, changing jobs during the term is not the same as doing it after the year is over. But, as it happens, I think I have never left one job for another one until the contract was over, even in high tech.

Like I said - our lives are different.
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Old 09-19-2009, 03:27 PM
 
10,630 posts, read 22,631,774 times
Reputation: 6682
Every profession has its own set of ethical guidelines. You know, or should know, the basic expectations going in. The guidelines are different than that of other professions because the schedule for teaching is different, the purpose of the job is different, and the role teachers play is different. Doctors, nurses, daycare providers, and any other profession all have their own unique considerations, too. That's the nature of specialized jobs, teaching included.

In the broader picture the problem is NOT that most people do seem to disapprove of teachers leaving in the middle of the year without a pressing reason, but rather that the system itself could use some adjusting to make it easier for teachers to switch jobs during the times of the year when it has the least impact on students. Rights of both the school and the teacher need to be balanced, too, so that teachers can safely assume that they won't be let go mid-year without good cause, and schools can assume that their teachers won't split, either, without equally good cause.
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