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Old 11-19-2009, 08:00 AM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
31,058 posts, read 37,772,523 times
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You handled it correctly.
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Old 11-19-2009, 09:36 AM
 
1,831 posts, read 3,682,212 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Well, I checked the online job sites yesterday and things are looking up for chemical engineers and chemists around here. My resume is going out enmasse this weekend. Hopefully, I can find something by semester break. That would be a good time to bring in another teacher (which I have a feeling is their plan).

I had another incident they think I handled wrong. I dismissed a student from lab for safety violations (this student has anger management issues) and when he came back, angry, to get his books I told him I'd send them down after the lab was done and he blew up at me. IMO, my concern has to be the other 29 students doing the lab at that time not whehter he gets his books NOW (had he grabbed them on the way out the first time it wouldn't have been an issue but alarm bells go off if this student comes back to the room because of past issues). Had the office called down for his books, I woulld have told them I'd send them when the lab was done. Nothing bad will happen if this student doesn't have his books for 15 minutes while we finish but if he throws a fit in the classroom during a labs something could happen. Apparently, I was supposed to take care of his books first and the other 29 students doing the lab after that. I always get it wrong. I'm just not on the same wavelength as my administration.
This is coming from a mother of a disabled child who has tantrums. I don't see where you did anything wrong in the above scenario. I do think that once you're on the outs with your superiors, they are going to find things to pick at you about, and it unfortunately won't stop. Stay strong and keep looking for that better job. That student should not be allowed to come back to your class angry, and the key should be prevention of blow-ups, not reaction.
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Old 11-19-2009, 10:16 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,391 posts, read 29,188,162 times
Reputation: 14461
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowian View Post
This is coming from a mother of a disabled child who has tantrums. I don't see where you did anything wrong in the above scenario. I do think that once you're on the outs with your superiors, they are going to find things to pick at you about, and it unfortunately won't stop. Stay strong and keep looking for that better job. That student should not be allowed to come back to your class angry, and the key should be prevention of blow-ups, not reaction.
He blows up, frequently, if he thinks I'm trying to tell him what to do As the teacher, that happens a lot. He decided that since he was done with his lab he no longer needed to wear safety equipment in the lab or follow lab rules so I tossed him out (I don't give warnings in labs that's just permission to break the rules once). Knowing his issues with anger management, when he came back my first thought is it's trouble.

He didn't even get detention. Hmmmm? Maybe they'll send me to detention for the class period and someone else can deal with him.

This student doesn't like to be told what to do. He wants to do what he wants to do. He seems to, especially, not like it if I tell him what to do (for example, he's blown up at me because I told him if he wasn't going to use work time in class to work he could leave the room.) His mom is convinced I'm the problem. The problem is I teach chemistry so there are simply more rules in my class. Like no eating or drinking in the room because it doubles as a lab. He likes to break that one all the time too and then blow up if I write him up. The kids just don't get that this is a lab so lab rules apply ALL THE TIME not just during labs. I won't even eat lunch at my desk and I never have chemicals on my desk.
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Old 11-19-2009, 12:29 PM
 
1,831 posts, read 3,682,212 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
He blows up, frequently, if he thinks I'm trying to tell him what to do As the teacher, that happens a lot. He decided that since he was done with his lab he no longer needed to wear safety equipment in the lab or follow lab rules so I tossed him out (I don't give warnings in labs that's just permission to break the rules once). Knowing his issues with anger management, when he came back my first thought is it's trouble.

He didn't even get detention. Hmmmm? Maybe they'll send me to detention for the class period and someone else can deal with him.

This student doesn't like to be told what to do. He wants to do what he wants to do. He seems to, especially, not like it if I tell him what to do (for example, he's blown up at me because I told him if he wasn't going to use work time in class to work he could leave the room.) His mom is convinced I'm the problem. The problem is I teach chemistry so there are simply more rules in my class. Like no eating or drinking in the room because it doubles as a lab. He likes to break that one all the time too and then blow up if I write him up. The kids just don't get that this is a lab so lab rules apply ALL THE TIME not just during labs. I won't even eat lunch at my desk and I never have chemicals on my desk.
What's his disability? Is he on an IEP?

Have you read "The Explosive Child"?

While you are looking at things in one way, his reactions and lack of self regulation pretty much dictate that you may need to treat him differently. So, while rules still apply to him, he may need those warnings, as well as lots of reminders. Reminders about rules and consequences.

No, you're not "the problem," but you are very likely going to have to deal with him in a different way if you want to limit those outbursts, and your school should be helping you come up with strategies.
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Old 11-19-2009, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Kansas
3,855 posts, read 11,315,083 times
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Wow. I hope you can find another job because clearly you are not appreciated where you are.

...can't believe they'd show you the door like that.
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Old 11-19-2009, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,391 posts, read 29,188,162 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bowian View Post
What's his disability? Is he on an IEP?

Have you read "The Explosive Child"?

While you are looking at things in one way, his reactions and lack of self regulation pretty much dictate that you may need to treat him differently. So, while rules still apply to him, he may need those warnings, as well as lots of reminders. Reminders about rules and consequences.

No, you're not "the problem," but you are very likely going to have to deal with him in a different way if you want to limit those outbursts, and your school should be helping you come up with strategies.
Their strategy seems to be to just send him back to class which empowers him and a few others who see what he gets away with.

As far as I know, he doesn't have an IEP. I've been told he has anger management issues but I've never been asked to attend an IEP for him.

Reminders don't work. He still blows up. He does not like being told what to do. I teach chemistry and have more rules than the average teacher because of the nature of the class. The school thinks it's me. I think it's just I tell kids what to do more than other teachers and I can tolerate less distruptive behavior.
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Old 11-20-2009, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles (Hollywood)
174 posts, read 450,002 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marylee54 View Post
IMO, you're playing the game wrong.

You made the rules clear in the beginning, along with signed contracts, that's all you can do. Seems those kids are baiting you.

This might sound bad and draw a lot lf flames, but just ignore them. If they break rules, don't notice, then you don't get involved. If they hurt themselves, well, then, that's the first you noticed. You can't do the impossible, have eyes in the back of your head. If they don;t hurt themselves, their lucky day, if they do, well, off to the hospital ER they go. They really can't sue you if they signed a contract, and its not like you provided food, they brought it into the classroom. I wouldn't lose sleep over it. Or the safety goggles, well, if you provide them,perhaps make sure everyone has theirs on at the beginning of the classs, you can't be expected to watch 20-30 kids to make sure they never take them off or rub their eyes. There again, just don't be so "observant" the consequences of violating safety rules should be theirs,not yours.

Youre trying too hard to be a good teacher without the proper support. Just ignore them!
Marylee, you're brilliant. This is truly the best response that has been offered to the original post.

In Los Angeles, administrators who arrived in their positions due to qualifications and appropriate reward for stellar training and excellent performance are as common as stars that can be seen in the LA night sky. You don't see many of them.

They win positions by butt kissing and innocuous mediocrity. Administrators are not terribly sharp and it is often advisable to steer clear of them by handling situations surreptitiously. You gave good advice, Marylee.

Charter schools are bad news for everyone except for corporate CEOs. In LA Unified, we still have tenure and seniority, although several board members would love to dismantle these safeguards. The scenario described here yields a perfect example of why states like California still have tenure. We can still talk and voice concerns.

There is nothing more hypocritical and deceptive than an administrator who feels desperately obligated to appease parents at any cost. Teachers with no protection (i.e. Charter employment) become sacrificial lambs on the altar of administrative career climbing.
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Old 11-20-2009, 09:06 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,391 posts, read 29,188,162 times
Reputation: 14461
Quote:
Originally Posted by drjones96 View Post
Wow. I hope you can find another job because clearly you are not appreciated where you are.

...can't believe they'd show you the door like that.
From what I've been told, all you need to do is be disliked by the adminstration to get shown the door. I'm, definitely, not cut from the cookie cutter they want. Apparently, it's all about keeping our enrollment numbers up these days. However, it turns out that this student doing the tower over me and ball his fists up fits the legal definition of assault here. Next time, I'm not calling the adminstration, I'm calling the police. Turns out any display of aggression intended to intimidate is considered assault. Fits what he's been doing.
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Old 11-20-2009, 09:13 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,391 posts, read 29,188,162 times
Reputation: 14461
Quote:
Originally Posted by skreem2 View Post
Marylee, you're brilliant. This is truly the best response that has been offered to the original post.

In Los Angeles, administrators who arrived in their positions due to qualifications and appropriate reward for stellar training and excellent performance are as common as stars that can be seen in the LA night sky. You don't see many of them.

They win positions by butt kissing and innocuous mediocrity. Administrators are not terribly sharp and it is often advisable to steer clear of them by handling situations surreptitiously. You gave good advice, Marylee.

Charter schools are bad news for everyone except for corporate CEOs. In LA Unified, we still have tenure and seniority, although several board members would love to dismantle these safeguards. The scenario described here yields a perfect example of why states like California still have tenure. We can still talk and voice concerns.

There is nothing more hypocritical and deceptive than an administrator who feels desperately obligated to appease parents at any cost. Teachers with no protection (i.e. Charter employment) become sacrificial lambs on the altar of administrative career climbing.
I've already lost to the parents here. It's all my fault he blows up. Never mind that I have about 140 other students I don't have these kinds of issues with. Yup, 1 out of 148 kids blows up at the teacher, repeatedly, because her rules are all wrong (and it's the way she says it when she enforces them) but somehow, 140 others manage just fine with the same treatment (difference in numbers due to the fact that I actually have a handful of problem students but most won't scream at me and ball their fists up like they're going to punch me. They just like to disrupt class.)

Admittedly, I have a reputation as a hard and strict teacher but when you consider my subject area, it's kind of hard to avoid both.

Unfortunately, ignoring this kind of behavior in one student just makes about a dozen others feel empowered to do the same and if you have a critical mass (enough that they start feeding off of each other's energy), not much teaching gets done and that is not fair to the other students in the class.

Maybe we should just put all the kids who don't want to learn in one class and see what happens.
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Old 11-28-2009, 09:21 PM
 
36 posts, read 113,972 times
Reputation: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by skreem2 View Post
Marylee, you're brilliant. This is truly the best response that has been offered to the original post.

In Los Angeles, administrators who arrived in their positions due to qualifications and appropriate reward for stellar training and excellent performance are as common as stars that can be seen in the LA night sky. You don't see many of them.

They win positions by butt kissing and innocuous mediocrity. Administrators are not terribly sharp and it is often advisable to steer clear of them by handling situations surreptitiously. You gave good advice, Marylee.

Charter schools are bad news for everyone except for corporate CEOs. In LA Unified, we still have tenure and seniority, although several board members would love to dismantle these safeguards. The scenario described here yields a perfect example of why states like California still have tenure. We can still talk and voice concerns.

There is nothing more hypocritical and deceptive than an administrator who feels desperately obligated to appease parents at any cost. Teachers with no protection (i.e. Charter employment) become sacrificial lambs on the altar of administrative career climbing.
Unfortunately, the above described administrators are found in many other places besides LA.

Just wondering..... who reprimands the administrators who are obviously not measuring up to the standard Code of Conduct and Ethics by making decisions that are inappropriate, unprofessional, unethical, incompetent, and/or even illegal...??

Does anybody know??...or care to share??
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