U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education > Teaching
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-02-2010, 04:19 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,713,317 times
Reputation: 14499

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike052082 View Post
I would never have a parent tell me any of those and not correct them. You have to tell the parent that you are there for their childs education as well as the other children in your room and no one can get in the way of that. I would have a paper trail so detailed that an administrator would have no choice but to do what is needed or I would be complaining on them.



Hold on a minute now. Don't quit till you have a job lined up in this economy.

I will leave with this. Ivy, I don't come into the education thread too often but everytime I do there is something you are having problems with and not accepting or finding fault in the answers. Honestly I have met people that this job wasn't for. I do commend you for searching for the answers but you have to change some things. Imitate the teachers that have it together.

I am more on the mean side of teaching but laugh and joke all the time. I am more against immaturity and stupidness than anything. I can handle a kid being a kid but they know that I will follow through with every consequence and they take that to the bank.

Sounds like you need "Capturing Kids Hearts"
How do you make parents correct issues? I'd love to see how that is done. I find parents excuse their children's behavior to the extremes. As a teacher, how do you make them fix it? All I've ever been able to do is document it so I'm covered when I refer the student to the office. The parents don't seem to listen to me

I've made no secret that I'm struggling with this change. I wouldn't be here if I weren't. I'm stunned I'm the only one here who has these issues. That is very telling. Here I am a year and half into teaching and still struggling while, for others, it was smooth sailing from day one. Definite mismatch here. It's February and I'm still struggling with discipline in my 4th hour. That's a sure sign I don't belong here. What I can't figure is this is the one area my administration doens't complain. They keep telling me I'm a good teacher. My principal even lectured my 4th hour once telling them that they should appreciate the amount of work I go to to make sure their class is hands on. That's another reason to leave. I don't need to work for people who won't be straight with me. Obviously, from what I read here, I'm a horrible teacher. Why lie to me? I guess they're just trying to get me to stay until it's convenient for them to fire me.

Thanks for the recommendation on teh book but I'll pass. I'm not staying long enough to need it and don't have time to read it with three lab based preps (I put in about 80 hours a week as it is planning labs and lessons and grading and calling parents, etc, etc, etc,...). It's all I can do to keep my head above water. I don't have time for reading anything that doesn't pertain to doing my job today and I have more important reading to do right now anyway like my resume. I needs a good spin doctoring right now before I blanket several states with it.

Thanks to all here who helped me realize just what a lousy teacher I am. It would have been a crime to stay in the profession.

Last edited by Ivorytickler; 02-02-2010 at 04:31 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-02-2010, 04:51 AM
 
Location: Sandpoint, Idaho
2,880 posts, read 5,073,776 times
Reputation: 3020
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
This is something I hear over and over again. That teachers need to earn the respect of their students. I'm interested in hearing how you earn respect from your students and what you do in the interim before you've earned their respect.
I don't know if this is the best format of the question. Better, I think, is: how do teachers earn the kind of respect they seek from teaching?

there are many professors who are respected by students for all the wrong reasons? the difference lies in the enormous knowledge gap between teacher and student, as well as in the potentially enormous gaps between the objectives of the professor, those of the student, and those of administration.

My classroom objectives were always to teach slightly above the heads of the top 20% of the class while trying to inspire (and often wake up) the bottom 20%, where the teaching is less about the technical knowledge of the subject and more about developing in them skills for life or frameworks of understanding.

This meant being versed in technical knowledge and current research, but also developing en ability to bring to life esoteric concepts via illustrations from their real world.

One should never assume that title corresponds to more intelligence or even knowledge...and certainly not a superior purpose. At the same time, many students need to proverbial kick in the pants and humble pie. Student potential is so much greater that they think and their knowledge and wisdom far less than their bravado suggests.

Targeting both "poles" helped keep me fresh.

How about the other 60%? It was up to them to utilize university resources, including my office hours and those of the TA(s). They could choose to strive toward the top or slide down to the bottom.

One must make choices as a teacher. The above were mine, never once giving me cause for regret.

S.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-02-2010, 05:45 AM
 
Location: Space Coast
1,989 posts, read 4,469,114 times
Reputation: 2733
Ivory, I don't think anyone is saying that you are bad at teaching. What we are trying to do is give you suggestions on classroom management. And no, you are not the only one. Nearly 80% of career change teachers (aka alternate entrant - those who do not come from a formal education in education) leave within 3 years. The top reasons? difficulty with classroom management and lack of support from administrators. (There's LOTS of published data on this). This is partly due to how the system is set up (not enough mentoring from experienced teachers, etc.), but it is also partly due to some career changers' attitude of "those who can't, teach" that for whatever reason (usually because they look down on teaching in general, especially in the sciences) don't feel that they should need help until it's much too late. (disclaimer: I am not saying that is you, only that it is true for some). My point is this: teaching goes way, way, way beyond "knowing your stuff", and there is nothing wrong with realizing that it's not for everyone. Some of the best minds in science wouldn't last a day on their own in a k-12 classroom, and that's OK too; however even those who are considered "great" teachers had some sort of support in the beginning, either through internship with a great cooperating teacher or with good mentoring during their first few years.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-02-2010, 06:31 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
475 posts, read 1,148,264 times
Reputation: 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Thanks for the list.

Question: How do you prep for the next class and stand at the door and greet kids? I teach three different subjects and need different things out for each one. I find I'm, often, busy getting ready for the next class while the students are walking in. Do you think it would be better to greet them at the door and do my set up after class starts (No place to set up and leave things, safely, before school starts so I'm going to look unprepared if I greet them at the door.)? I did greet them at the door during the first week and I ended up with one of my demo's broken. I've also had things stolen when my attention wasn't on the are of the room where I do my demos.

Can I ask how your first two years went? I'm still struggling after a year and a half and questioning whether or not I even belong in teaching. I have an old employer who is asking me to apply for a position with a company doing a project for him. I'm not sure what strings he can pull but he may be able to make it happen. I could be out of teaching in three weeks if this works out. (I filled out the online application and stopped at "send" last night.) I'm starting to think my struggles are a clear sign I don't belong here. Others find this so easy yet I'm still struggling, badly, with one of my six classes and have my days with another. I guess I have my answer, don't I? The kids steal from me and break things. I think they've cast their vote for me to hit "send" and hope my old boss can pull a few strings. Hopefully, thier next teacher will be better.

Thanks.
If you teach more than one class always have all your handouts etc in a folder labled for that period. During the last minute of the previous class when students are cleaning up etc I go pull the folder for the next class and put it on my front table. I also teach science so one thing I try to do is plan ahead so that I don't have different classes all doing big labs on the same day.

I always have an agenda on the board,when I have different classes or classes at different paces then I grab a sheet of chart paper in the morning and write out what the other class will be doing then I just tape it up over the primary agenda(takes 10 seconds).

I also have kids turn in their homework ino a box, I give them 1 minute after the bell rings to get their homework in and to get ready for class, when I start they will be ready(that 1 minute gives me an extra minute for housekeeping).

My first 2 years were really rough(I had no teacher training, I worked at a reseach lab at a university). I had to figure out a system that worked for me. I think after a few years you built a reputation, you teach more kids, they pass down alot of info.

The big thing for me is in the first few weeks of class you have to let them know you are serious, I let nothing slide. If someone flicks someone I address it so they know the expectation.

As per the possible job offer, I always say do what you love. For me being able to teach is doing what I love. If the other job is doing what you love than I say go for it, if teaching is what you love then stick with it. Only you know what is right for you.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-02-2010, 07:10 AM
 
2,180 posts, read 3,187,932 times
Reputation: 838
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
How do you make parents correct issues? I'd love to see how that is done. I find parents excuse their children's behavior to the extremes. As a teacher, how do you make them fix it? All I've ever been able to do is document it so I'm covered when I refer the student to the office. The parents don't seem to listen to me

I've made no secret that I'm struggling with this change. I wouldn't be here if I weren't. I'm stunned I'm the only one here who has these issues. That is very telling. Here I am a year and half into teaching and still struggling while, for others, it was smooth sailing from day one. Definite mismatch here. It's February and I'm still struggling with discipline in my 4th hour. That's a sure sign I don't belong here. What I can't figure is this is the one area my administration doens't complain. They keep telling me I'm a good teacher. My principal even lectured my 4th hour once telling them that they should appreciate the amount of work I go to to make sure their class is hands on. That's another reason to leave. I don't need to work for people who won't be straight with me. Obviously, from what I read here, I'm a horrible teacher. Why lie to me? I guess they're just trying to get me to stay until it's convenient for them to fire me.

Thanks for the recommendation on teh book but I'll pass. I'm not staying long enough to need it and don't have time to read it with three lab based preps (I put in about 80 hours a week as it is planning labs and lessons and grading and calling parents, etc, etc, etc,...). It's all I can do to keep my head above water. I don't have time for reading anything that doesn't pertain to doing my job today and I have more important reading to do right now anyway like my resume. I needs a good spin doctoring right now before I blanket several states with it.

Thanks to all here who helped me realize just what a lousy teacher I am. It would have been a crime to stay in the profession.
We have no idea if you are a horrible teacher, a wonderful teacher, or a teacher at all. As you have repeatedly pointed out, you could be making up the whole thing to amuse yourself.

We have taken what you have said at face value, so it is not a question of our saying you are or are not a horrible teacher - it is a question of responding to what you have described.

You are the one who indicated that you struggle. Posters have repeatedly responded to your struggles.

You are the one who says "am I the only one?" Posters have repeatedly talked about their own struggles, as well as their successes.

You are the one who has complained about the field, your school, your administrators, your students, and their parents from the start. Posters have responded to your complaints - at times commiserating, at times sharply disagreeing with your characterizations.

You are the one who has uttered the old, false canard of "Those who can't, teach," as a rationalization for why you belong in tech, not in teaching. Posters have responded to that, as well.

You are the one who has requested advice. Posters have provided it - in spades.

You don't have time. It doesn't fit. It won't work. You've "read enough" about it. The litany of why the advice is useless to you becomes mind-numbing.

Yes, you put me on ignore (you say), but it seems as if you have most other posters on "ignore" conceptually, if not technically.

I hope for your sake and your family's that you find a good job back in the tech world, one that pays you well and brings you both happiness and job satisfaction.

But please excuse me if I hope that you have at least learned that, contrary to your repeated earlier insistence, teaching is nota job just like any other.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-02-2010, 08:49 AM
 
22 posts, read 34,508 times
Reputation: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Thanks to all here who helped me realize just what a lousy teacher I am. It would have been a crime to stay in the profession.
I sincerely doubt that you're a lousy teacher. It just seems to me that you don't enjoy your job. That is what I meant by not teaching if your heart's not in it.

Apologies for hurting your feelings.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-02-2010, 09:20 AM
 
6,550 posts, read 12,611,560 times
Reputation: 3152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
How do you make parents correct issues? I'd love to see how that is done. I find parents excuse their children's behavior to the extremes. As a teacher, how do you make them fix it? All I've ever been able to do is document it so I'm covered when I refer the student to the office. The parents don't seem to listen to me

I've made no secret that I'm struggling with this change. I wouldn't be here if I weren't. I'm stunned I'm the only one here who has these issues. That is very telling. Here I am a year and half into teaching and still struggling while, for others, it was smooth sailing from day one. Definite mismatch here. It's February and I'm still struggling with discipline in my 4th hour. That's a sure sign I don't belong here. What I can't figure is this is the one area my administration doens't complain. They keep telling me I'm a good teacher. My principal even lectured my 4th hour once telling them that they should appreciate the amount of work I go to to make sure their class is hands on. That's another reason to leave. I don't need to work for people who won't be straight with me. Obviously, from what I read here, I'm a horrible teacher. Why lie to me? I guess they're just trying to get me to stay until it's convenient for them to fire me.

Thanks for the recommendation on teh book but I'll pass. I'm not staying long enough to need it and don't have time to read it with three lab based preps (I put in about 80 hours a week as it is planning labs and lessons and grading and calling parents, etc, etc, etc,...). It's all I can do to keep my head above water. I don't have time for reading anything that doesn't pertain to doing my job today and I have more important reading to do right now anyway like my resume. I needs a good spin doctoring right now before I blanket several states with it.

Thanks to all here who helped me realize just what a lousy teacher I am. It would have been a crime to stay in the profession.
I should start by mentioning that I'm not a teacher yet, but this seems like maybe a case of over-inflated expectations?

Perhaps you had a vision of how it would be and you aren't getting to that point. Is it possible that the vision in your head is/was unattainable with today's kids?

People in ALL walks struggle with this professionally AND personally. If I were you, I'd have taken the word of your Administrators.... They're telling you you're a good teacher and are trying to get your one troubled class to shape up.... My main concern after all you'd said would be that my bosses thought I sucked too and I'd be fearing for my job.... Doesn't look like that is/was an issue...

That said, if you hate it then get out. I can certainly understand that..

Good luck to you!!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-02-2010, 10:02 AM
 
693 posts, read 1,372,805 times
Reputation: 428
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
How do you make parents correct issues? I'd love to see how that is done. I find parents excuse their children's behavior to the extremes. As a teacher, how do you make them fix it? All I've ever been able to do is document it so I'm covered when I refer the student to the office. The parents don't seem to listen to me

I've made no secret that I'm struggling with this change. I wouldn't be here if I weren't. I'm stunned I'm the only one here who has these issues. That is very telling. Here I am a year and half into teaching and still struggling while, for others, it was smooth sailing from day one. Definite mismatch here. It's February and I'm still struggling with discipline in my 4th hour. That's a sure sign I don't belong here. What I can't figure is this is the one area my administration doens't complain. They keep telling me I'm a good teacher. My principal even lectured my 4th hour once telling them that they should appreciate the amount of work I go to to make sure their class is hands on. That's another reason to leave. I don't need to work for people who won't be straight with me. Obviously, from what I read here, I'm a horrible teacher. Why lie to me? I guess they're just trying to get me to stay until it's convenient for them to fire me.

Thanks for the recommendation on teh book but I'll pass. I'm not staying long enough to need it and don't have time to read it with three lab based preps (I put in about 80 hours a week as it is planning labs and lessons and grading and calling parents, etc, etc, etc,...). It's all I can do to keep my head above water. I don't have time for reading anything that doesn't pertain to doing my job today and I have more important reading to do right now anyway like my resume. I needs a good spin doctoring right now before I blanket several states with it.

Thanks to all here who helped me realize just what a lousy teacher I am. It would have been a crime to stay in the profession.
Nobody has told you you are a lousy teacher. People do react to your negativity though - either by getting frustrated with it or by encouraging you to remain positive. When I first came in the forum I thought people were picking on you a bit but then I saw that you consistently had an incredibly negative tone. It's hard not to react to that.

Simply based on your posts there are certain things which you always write about:
1. You are not paid enough.
2. Your kids are unmanageable.
3. You work unreasonable hours.
4. You are very well educated and a subject matter expert.
5. You do not receive respect from either administration or kids.
6. You got into teaching because you wanted to make a difference.

I am assuming you understood that teachers pay was going to be less than what you could earn as an engineer before you ever considered getting into teaching. Therefore, pay is a moot point. You shouldn't complain about what you knew. You also should have known that if you're not willing to move your hiring choices are going to be limited. That's just life and pretty much any profession (even before this economic downturn).

I am not a teacher yet (I will start this coming autumn), but I've always known that classroom management was going to be an issue. I'm fully expecting to struggle with this. I also am very educated and have tremendous professional experience - but I don't think this will help me with classroom management. I also don't expect kids to respect me for what I did before I got into teaching. It's totally irrelevant to them. Many are there because they are forced to be there (unless you teach in an exceptional district, perhaps). I'm not really sure what you expected.

Did you really get into teaching because you wanted to make a difference? If so, the above problems shouldn't affect you so strongly, so early on. It's not like you're a rosy cheeked kid straight out of college with no life experience. You know what the world is like. Hard knocks and all of that. Anything that makes a difference usually takes a significant amount of time and has many discouraging moments. At least that's been my experience. It's personal fortitude and your own goals that will keep you going through the adversity.

None of this has anything to do with you being a lousy teacher, but more to do with the fact that you seem to have a lousy attitude. You even managed to create negative personal drama with your job interview ("oh, what do I do, how do I do this, do I have to lie?, my administration is going to fire me! they never wanted to hire me, it's all a sham!"). It's too much.

Sorry for being so blunt. I'm not trying to be unkind, but geesh. Stop feeling so sorry for yourself. Get on with it. Teach or don't teach, but whatever you do, do what you love.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-02-2010, 05:04 PM
 
Location: In the AC
972 posts, read 2,077,472 times
Reputation: 830
I think it says a lot about the nature of teachers that so many of you have continued to respond to the negativity with positive and constructive help. That is what helps new teachers make it!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-02-2010, 06:27 PM
 
Location: The High Seas
7,146 posts, read 12,737,963 times
Reputation: 10973
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
This is something I hear over and over again. That teachers need to earn the respect of their students. I'm interested in hearing how you earn respect from your students and what you do in the interim before you've earned their respect.
Instead of using one of those wimpy teachers' pointers, use a machete. It gets their attention every time.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education > Teaching
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top