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Old 04-30-2010, 10:22 PM
 
Location: Southern Illinois
10,364 posts, read 20,724,169 times
Reputation: 15642

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Oh I have had it up to here with ST. This really is just a fine whine or a rant and rave, whatever you want to call it. We did end-of-course testing this week and the testing company is like the gestapo. They had a seminar for us about how to administer the test and much of it was thinly veiled threats. If we get caught looking at the test questions, we can be fired. We can be fired for paraphrasing a question for a student or a host of other "sins." None of the teachers can see the questions--unless they read a test for the student and I did quite a lot of that, and I'd even be afraid to post an example of a test question on here for fear of the corporation looking me up--sounds a bit paranoid I know, but these guys are serious and that's the way they talk. I love working with

Then there is the sheer amount of work of tabulating the tests and going thru them to make sure that they are all labeled properly and that nothing suspicious went on and of course the school personnel does that at the taxpayer's expense and you can be sure that none of us gets paid nearly as well as those who work for the testing corporation, b/c this is big, big business and sanctioned by the government. Anyway, I love working with kids but I hate the bureaucratic crap. Rant over, thanks for reading.
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Old 04-30-2010, 10:52 PM
 
4,356 posts, read 4,195,932 times
Reputation: 5786
All they can do is fire you?

They threaten to put us in jail!

They warn us not to report errors on the test because then they know you've looked at it. It makes me wonder if they don't put errors on their intentionally so that they can set people up.

Do they use a response-monitoring company too? They do here. They look for patterns of wrong answers in order to flag certain students for review and to discern patterns which may include coaching.

Woe to the person with bad allergies. Throat-clearing has been targeted as a behavior to monitor.
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Old 05-01-2010, 07:08 AM
 
Location: Suburbia
8,803 posts, read 15,241,245 times
Reputation: 4502
I love when we have our testing meeting for the end of year state tests and the administrator hands us all a form that basically says we will not discuss the test with anyone, look at the questions, lose the booklets, etc. or we could lose our licenses. To "agree" you have to sign. Every year some one asks, "What if I choose not to sign? Why should I set myself up for something like this?" The answer is, "Just sign it".
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Old 05-01-2010, 08:02 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
5,725 posts, read 11,667,187 times
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The problem is not so much with the tests. The picayune rules are what make them standardized. The real problem is how schools, districts and states use them.
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Old 05-01-2010, 09:02 AM
 
Location: Southern Illinois
10,364 posts, read 20,724,169 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maf763 View Post
The problem is not so much with the tests. The picayune rules are what make them standardized. The real problem is how schools, districts and states use them.
Yeah, that's a whole nuther rant but right now my rant is with the testing corporation and with the stupid govt regulations and the fact that both are in each other's pocketssses. (sorry, I'm reading the Hobbit right now!) The main reason these corps are threatening us about the test questions is b/c they don't want another test company to find out what their questions are b/c that would hurt their bottom line. It's the teachers who pay the real price. The teachers and the kids. I think it would be hilarious if the kids went out and sold the info to another testing company!

Partridge, we must have several students targeted for review then, b/c I've seen several test forms that look like they just went down and filled in A,B,C,D. I read to a girl the other day and then looked up and she'd already filled in all the answers even though I was only halfway thru the test. The problem I was having while reading the test is that it's almost inhuman to me to not paraphrase for the kids. They're sped kids and when their frustration level rises, mine does too. I did paraphrase a little bit and then stopped b/c I was getting paranoid, and someone I didn't recognize walked by the door of the room and seemed to be listening briefly, so I hope I'm not in jail on Monday! Is this a free country? I think not so much anymore.

Oh yes, and about the paraphrasing: I've noticed while teaching that many times you first teach a concept and some don't get it, so you word it another way, and some more still don't get it, so you word it another way again and hopefully all will get it, but I'll keep wording until all get it. Some of the test questions were worded in a strange way and even though the kids knew the concept, they didn't get it from the strange way it was presented. When I gave in to the temptation to paraphrase, they knew exactly what was being asked, though I didn't actually help them. That's the real problem I see with the test. They're not testing intelligence; they're testing the ability to figure out what gestapo is asking and they're testing knowledge of vocabulary more than anything else.
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Old 05-02-2010, 05:51 AM
 
Location: On a Slow-Sinking Granite Rock Up North
3,638 posts, read 6,139,204 times
Reputation: 2677
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgbwc View Post
I love when we have our testing meeting for the end of year state tests and the administrator hands us all a form that basically says we will not discuss the test with anyone, look at the questions, lose the booklets, etc. or we could lose our licenses. To "agree" you have to sign. Every year some one asks, "What if I choose not to sign? Why should I set myself up for something like this?" The answer is, "Just sign it".
Welcome to the coporate model which should not be anywhere near schools as far as I'm concerned. At all. We can't discuss it - "loose lips sink ships." Therefore, IMHO, schools are left with little recourse but to follow along like a good sheep, or else.

Politicians need to leave education the heck alone as far as I'm concerned. Children shouldn't be raised to be cogs in the wheels of the work force by factory manufacturing their knowledge. When we focus on test, test, test, then it's a natural progression to me that we'll have teachers who fear losing their jobs to the point where they'll simply comply. There is a place for testing, but it should not completely dictate the curriculum as it does now IMO.
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Old 05-02-2010, 07:54 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,409,670 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reloop View Post
Welcome to the coporate model which should not be anywhere near schools as far as I'm concerned. At all. We can't discuss it - "loose lips sink ships." Therefore, IMHO, schools are left with little recourse but to follow along like a good sheep, or else.

Politicians need to leave education the heck alone as far as I'm concerned. Children shouldn't be raised to be cogs in the wheels of the work force by factory manufacturing their knowledge. When we focus on test, test, test, then it's a natural progression to me that we'll have teachers who fear losing their jobs to the point where they'll simply comply. There is a place for testing, but it should not completely dictate the curriculum as it does now IMO.
The real question is does the test actually measure what children need to know? If it does, then there should be no issue with teaching to the test becasuse you will be teaching them what they need to know.

However, what happens is they get taught how to weed out potential wrong answers to increase their chances of guessing the right one rather than being taught the material they need to know to pass the test. The intention of the test was to determine if they knew what they should but I don't think that's what we're testing. I think we're testing how well our students take tests.
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Old 05-02-2010, 08:36 AM
 
2,839 posts, read 9,957,382 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reloop View Post
Welcome to the coporate model which should not be anywhere near schools as far as I'm concerned. At all. We can't discuss it - "loose lips sink ships." Therefore, IMHO, schools are left with little recourse but to follow along like a good sheep, or else.

Politicians need to leave education the heck alone as far as I'm concerned. Children shouldn't be raised to be cogs in the wheels of the work force by factory manufacturing their knowledge. When we focus on test, test, test, then it's a natural progression to me that we'll have teachers who fear losing their jobs to the point where they'll simply comply. There is a place for testing, but it should not completely dictate the curriculum as it does now IMO.
I think that is the point. I know it's an unpopular and non-PC view, but it's true. The focus of school right now is to teach children (and I guess teachers too!) to go along with the status quo. From standardized testing to zero tolerance, it's all about learning not to rock the boat... or else!
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Old 05-02-2010, 08:40 AM
 
Location: Bar Harbor, ME
1,920 posts, read 4,304,775 times
Reputation: 1300
Quote:
Originally Posted by reloop View Post
Welcome to the coporate model which should not be anywhere near schools as far as I'm concerned. At all. We can't discuss it - "loose lips sink ships." Therefore, IMHO, schools are left with little recourse but to follow along like a good sheep, or else.

Politicians need to leave education the heck alone as far as I'm concerned. Children shouldn't be raised to be cogs in the wheels of the work force by factory manufacturing their knowledge. When we focus on test, test, test, then it's a natural progression to me that we'll have teachers who fear losing their jobs to the point where they'll simply comply. There is a place for testing, but it should not completely dictate the curriculum as it does now IMO.
Politicians are so involved in education with funded, but mostly unfunded mandates, that 80-90% of what education does now is managed directly or indirectly by the government. There is no occupation in the country that is more managed by the government is not the government. And though everyone in education knows that we are a branch of the state and federal governments, most private citizens think that because their tax dollars pay for the school directly, that it is their operation. Many private citizens then blame the actual educators, their unions, and anyone else locally that they can, without any knowledge that they should be blaming their elected officials at the state and federal levels. The local school hasn't been local since about 1974 when the first federal special education laws came into effect.
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Old 05-02-2010, 09:38 AM
 
Location: On a Slow-Sinking Granite Rock Up North
3,638 posts, read 6,139,204 times
Reputation: 2677
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
The real question is does the test actually measure what children need to know? If it does, then there should be no issue with teaching to the test becasuse you will be teaching them what they need to know.

However, what happens is they get taught how to weed out potential wrong answers to increase their chances of guessing the right one rather than being taught the material they need to know to pass the test. The intention of the test was to determine if they knew what they should but I don't think that's what we're testing. I think we're testing how well our students take tests.
I agree. I don't think a child should be tested more than once a year - and I certainly don't agree that a child should be tested on material that they've not even seen yet in order to establish a baseline for the end of the year tests. Talk about setting a kid up to fret. Not only that, but what a way to develop the mindset of "Oh, I don't have to worry about getting that right - I'm not supposed to know that yet." I've heard that from more than just my kids.

Oy Vey! Talk about dropping a pellet everytime the mouse rings the bell. This is a perfect example of what I was talking about on your query as to why older kids seem to lack the motivation to study now. I realize there are many other factors, but this is a big one to me.

I am glad to see, however, that our school is no longer diving into the preparathon-like test fests like they were earlier in hopes to take off the pressure. While it's admirable for them to want their kids to not be stressed about a test, I think it does more harm than good.

I say this from the experience of hearing "My stomach hurts!" every morning for 3 weeks before they have an assessment or test of some sort.
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