Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I completely agree with the bolded portions. Teaching all students how to think critically (and for themselves) and how to control themselves (in short, how to be independant) should be the point of education. However, critical thinking skills and independence do not develop overnight. For inner-city students who often have less helping them than their privileged counterparts, open-book tests can be an important step on the way to independence. However, these students must first be taught note-taking and reading/research skills first. If they do not have these skills, then, yes, the open-book tests are counter-productive.
I completely disagree that expectations should be the same for all kids, as it goes against my personal teaching philosophy that not all students have the same strengths and weaknesses and that, therefore, teachers should adopt a more individualized rather than standardized/generalized approach. However, I do agree that high expectations should always exist. However, they need to be realistic so that students don't get frustrated or overwhelmed.
I agree that an individualized approach is necessary. I just can't agree that we should say inner-city, disadvantaged kids should be expected to be less capable and do less due to their circumstances. I know they have greater challenges, but we have to keep working to get them where they need to be. Nearly 100% of the time, their issues and challenges are not a result of not being able to handle rigor when engaged, but rather getting them engaged in the first place.
I've been using open note quizzes for years. The students must take notes from a series of lectures, labs, demonstrations, discussions, and readings. Since I teach a subject where the immediate learning is not as important or applicable as the long term acquisition of the habits and components of the information, I justify open notes as teaching them to use their resources to find answers and make decisions. BTW I teach personal finance, a much needed and under taught (if taught at all) subject. Those that complete the notes generally are more confident and prepared than those that are flipping through their pages because their notes are sparse or non-existent. This also allows students to focus on what learning method works best for them and to concentrate on the information that they find more difficult.
OK, I've been thinking about this since it's finals week and I work with a lot of kids who are assigned open book tests and quizzes. You guys are right--they are clueless about how to look up the info and very demanding at times that we help them. Had an autistic kid today taking a physics test who thought I should help him with his test even though it was open book and notes. I couldn't have helped him if I'd wanted to b/c I know next to nothing about even high school physics but after I patiently explained to him several times that we are not going to help him with a test, hello!, and he got mad and I realized that he was just very very frustrated and sent him back to class. And I realized that the OP is just very frustrated as well and we all have days like that, but I still believe firmly that if you're going to give an open book and note test then it's best to teach them how to look up the info. It's stuff I take for granted but I've watched these kids and they are clueless about how to find the glossary or the index or the table of contents. It's not fair to the kids to give them an open book test and the powers that be that assign these kinds of tests don't seem to realize that what's very clear to them is not clear at all to the sped kids who can't even read.
OTOH, the kids that I reviewed with the other day did very well on their test and they didn't even need the notes--they remembered. And that's what we often forget--that the LD kids have better memories than we do. This was a lit test btw and the kids couldn't read. So, my conclusion is that giving open book tests doesn't really give them any kind of unfair advantage, even if you teach them how to look the info up. And if you don't teach them how to look it up, then you're just confusing them further.
Let me preface this by saying that this thread is meant as a venting thread by an inner-city teacher and is meant for other teachers.
Does anyone else on here allow open-note/book quizzes/tests and then have students ask, "Where can we find .....?" Are they kidding me? Oh, and then when I refuse to tell them, I hear, "You're mean, you drawlin', why you irkin'?"Because though I understand you may need some help I don't believe I need to do everything for you.
I don't allow them unless it's a surprise quiz and then I don't usually allow them. I find that students don't study at all when they know they can use their book/notes. What I have found that works, is letting my students have one note card. I used to give my physics students an equation sheet. Then one test, I was just overwhelmed and couldn't get it done so, two days before the test, I told them to make their own. I checked them to make sure they didn't have any worked problems on them and got a surprise when I graded the tests. About a 10% jump in the class average. Apparently, making them look at the book and decide for themselves which equations are important works.
I had an open book open notes math class in college and learned NOTHING in there except how to look up solutions. It was advanced engineering mathematics. Had the tests not been open book, I would have flunked. I got an A because I could figure out where to go. I'm not sure of the value of that. I guess I had to know the material well enough to find what I needed, for whatever that is worth.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 05-29-2010 at 05:54 AM..
Open note book tests or quizzes absolutely have their place in some courses.
I personally do not use them but the AP physics teacher at my school allows students to use their notes and the book for the last ten minutes of a quiz (not a test). Their reasoning is that in the real world people do have resources at their disposal and the ability to find what you need to complete a problem is a real skill.
He will deliberately put problems that need a specific conversion or obscure formula because not everything in about memorization. That is the same reason I give a formula sheet (without names or definitions of symbols) on my comprehensive final in chemistry. I want to know if they understand not if they can memorize.
I agree that an individualized approach is necessary. I just can't agree that we should say inner-city, disadvantaged kids should be expected to be less capable and do less due to their circumstances. I know they have greater challenges, but we have to keep working to get them where they need to be. Nearly 100% of the time, their issues and challenges are not a result of not being able to handle rigor when engaged, but rather getting them engaged in the first place.
Absolutely. As I previously stated, the expectations always need to be high. But the expectations need to be relative to the students and what they can do.
But you make a good point about assumptions and the self-fullfilling prophecy of poor performance that they cause. The best approach is to always go in with the highest expectations and with no preconceived notions and then to modify accordingly after you've gotten to know your students.
I think that a lot of inner-city students aren't engaged b/c their perspective re: life is to always make enough money to get out of their circumstances. When making money is your priority, it is very difficult to focus on academics; for a lot of students, academics and studying are just not practical.
My best inner-city students were always those whose parents had told them that studying would eventually pay off. For those that do not have such parents, it is very difficult to engage them. But mine always responded well to methods that were relevant to their lives, which means that you actually have to know something about their lives, the perspective that they are coming from; that really is the key.
And then there are those kids like the one I spoke with yesterday. I was showing her the grades she had, beginning with those that transferred from her previous school. I asked her why she missed so much school, and she replied that she just didn't feel like coming. When I asked her what she would do once she had a job and didn't feel like going, she just shrugged. Then I asked her if her parents worked. They don't. Then she told me that it didn't matter that she was going to fail. She was planning to get her GED next year. My fear is that she won't be able to read well enough to pass it either. So she will either get a low-level job that she'll likely lose when she doesn't show up on those days that she "just doesn't feel like going," or either get pregnant so she can get a check like most of the women in her family probably do.
Every year I start out with high expectations, and every August they are dashed when I am struck by how slowly I must go in order to not lose most of my students. I keep hoping that NCLB will one day make a positive difference, but ironically, it seems to have resulted in movement in the other direction. Except for writing, which has definitely improved over the last few years, I notice a definite drop in general knowledge and vocabulary. That's one of the reasons I call it No Child Allowed Ahead.
And then there are those kids like the one I spoke with yesterday. I was showing her the grades she had, beginning with those that transferred from her previous school. I asked her why she missed so much school, and she replied that she just didn't feel like coming. When I asked her what she would do once she had a job and didn't feel like going, she just shrugged. Then I asked her if her parents worked. They don't. Then she told me that it didn't matter that she was going to fail. She was planning to get her GED next year. My fear is that she won't be able to read well enough to pass it either. So she will either get a low-level job that she'll likely lose when she doesn't show up on those days that she "just doesn't feel like going," or either get pregnant so she can get a check like most of the women in her family probably do.
Every year I start out with high expectations, and every August they are dashed when I am struck by how slowly I must go in order to not lose most of my students. I keep hoping that NCLB will one day make a positive difference, but ironically, it seems to have resulted in movement in the other direction. Except for writing, which has definitely improved over the last few years, I notice a definite drop in general knowledge and vocabulary. That's one of the reasons I call it No Child Allowed Ahead.
We came up with a lot of cute and derogatory names for the legislation. I think that it's safe to say that it is not popular among the majority of educators, who agree that it has made things worse rather than better.
I am so sorry that you have a student like that; that's a very disheartening situation and it's very difficult to view the student in a positive light. But as I said before, it may just be that she sees school as impractical for her (i.e. she is not going to ever get anything out of it so why go or even try?) And, unfortunately, she might be right. It is very difficult for a student to get to college when he/she does not have the background and/or the financial resources, which is why povery is so devastating as it tends to be cyclical.
Whenever I encountered students like that, I would admonish them for putting themselves down and compliment their intelligence in order to encourage them. A lot of those students don't ever get that encouragement at home or from other sources. My students were definitely perked when I complimented them. Even when their circumstances are difficult, knowing that someone cares about them and believes in them really can make a difference.
When you were all students in college or high school, did you do better on tests based on the reading material or tests based on the lectures/class discussion?
Personally, I did way better on tests based on what was in the books because I am a terrible listener. Even my notes reflected how bad a listener I was. Don't assume they are lousy note takers when it's their listening skills that stink. I just don't absorb what people tell me, even personal chit chat. You know, in one ear and out the other. On the other hand, I can remember what I read and visualize where I saw it in a book or magazine down to where on the page the exact information or photo is located. This carried on throughout my career. I remembered what was in memos and e-mails from years ago but not what bosses said yesterday at a meeting or even which boss said it. When co-workers asked me for answers, instead of telling them, I told them exactly where they could find the answer to their question thinking they'd remember it better if they read it themselves instead of hearing it from me. I was, of course, erroneously assuming people learned one way - my way.
The point is all of your students are not the same. I suspect some have better listening absorption skills and some have better reading absorption skills. Do they test students for that these days? How close does the classroom teaching match what's in their textbooks? As teachers, I don't know how you address tests for students with better reading absorption versus better listening absorption but (true story) I remember being taught "improving listening skills" in a training session at work and promptly forgetting it because it was delivered as a lecture instead of as reading material.
If kids know they will be having an open book/open notes quiz/test they will not study at all. Open book/notes is not a good idea. They don't learn anything by doing that.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Apparently, making them look at the book and decide for themselves which equations are important works.
