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Old 10-08-2010, 05:09 PM
 
Location: Knoxville, TN
213 posts, read 549,549 times
Reputation: 209

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IMHO the son should be a prime candidate for a Darwin Award.
1. Burns garbage too close to the house and leaves it unattended.
2. Had an aerosol can in the garbage that exploded and spread the fire. Mr. Cranick admitted to this on a TV interview.
3. Left the pets inside the house to die when all reports indicate that there was plenty of time to save them.

Many people on here do not understand the mentality that is prevalent in rural areas. Common since would say “ Increase the property tax so the county could provide the basic services to protect life and property”. But the majority of the citizens do not want this. They want to decide for themselves what services they need and pay individually for each service that they deem necessary for themselves. And the will of the voters will prevail.

As for myself, I would never live in a rural area. I think that the city services that I receive for my city taxes is a bargain.
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Old 10-08-2010, 05:34 PM
 
2,319 posts, read 4,791,102 times
Reputation: 2109
I agree with everything you said, tntim, except your final statement. I actually love living in the country. To each his own, eh?
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Old 10-08-2010, 07:47 PM
 
Location: Lake Worth, Fl
364 posts, read 1,110,217 times
Reputation: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover View Post
Gee I dunno, maybe they, like, asked?
I agree with people dropping the theatrics. I believe if the firefighters had known someone was in the house the would have gone in.

But to rely simply on an operator who is talking to distressed people to determine if someone was in the house is wrong. Even if they had no intention of going in, the fire department should have responded to make the determination on site.



Quote:
Originally Posted by tntim
3. Left the pets inside the house to die when all reports indicate that there was plenty of time to save them.
In defense of the moron. A fire quickly can go from a small problem to enfuling the house sometimes in mintues. He may have thought he had time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DubbleT
If it were your spouse, or child, or parent responding to this fire would you really expect them to risk their lives to save an animal?
Just like people crying about "what would they have done if a baby was in the house", this argument needs to stop being so dramatic. An average person would not expect a fireman to go into a buring down building to rescue the animals. But simply putting water on the fire in a simple attempt rescue them would have made this a non-story.
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Old 10-08-2010, 08:56 PM
 
Location: Chicago
38,707 posts, read 102,951,116 times
Reputation: 29981
Quote:
Originally Posted by WOWAddict View Post
I agree with people dropping the theatrics. I believe if the firefighters had known someone was in the house the would have gone in.

But to rely simply on an operator who is talking to distressed people to determine if someone was in the house is wrong. Even if they had no intention of going in, the fire department should have responded to make the determination on site.
They DID make the determination on site.

Did anyone bother to ascertain any of the facts of this story?
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Old 10-08-2010, 09:01 PM
 
9,803 posts, read 16,147,960 times
Reputation: 8266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover View Post
They DID make the determination on site.

Did anyone bother to ascertain any of the facts of this story?
Many posters don't like facts ( especially if it is contrary to their formed opinion )
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Old 10-08-2010, 09:11 PM
 
2,063 posts, read 7,754,658 times
Reputation: 2755
To the hysterical baby killer yelling people all I can say is you need to actually read what occurred and become aware of what really happened before accusing people of murder and demanding they go on criminal trial.

Some simple points keep getting missed because people either cannot read or do not understand the system and compare it to their urban/suburban utopia rather than reality. Fires are never the Hollywood version and they bring out a primeval fear that seems to defy intelligent and rational reasoning in some.

1.This is an extremely rural and poor area. The fire department has been know to scrounge change from the coke machine to help put gas in the trucks. The firemen are VOLUNTEERS who pay for equipment and training out of their own pockets. THEY DO NOT GET PAID and are not public servants as some have claimed.

2. The Fire department in question is a VOLUNTEER fire department for the city of South Fulton and were never intended to be responsible for people outside of the city limits.

2. The subscription service was offered to people outside of the city limit for a simple fee in order to give those who wanted a chance at the same protection that 'in town' residents enjoy by paying taxes. By paying the fee one gets a service should you require help with a fire. Legally, by not subscribing you are opting out of fire department services and saying you don't want the service.

3. The home on fire was not close in to the "city" ( a hamlet at best). A small handful of volunteers is expected to cover an area that can take longer than a half hour to cross in a normal vehicle, if there are all paved roads, and much longer with a water truck. There are no hydrants anywhere near the fire in question and a tanker takes a while to fill should it be used. If a chief has very limited man power and water capacity he needs to consider how many human lives he might risk by sending his crews out far from town to someone who has opted out of the service. Imagine the news that a family died in town while the department was out taking care of the family pets of someone who had chosen against getting the subscription service.

4. A great deal of time elapsed between the garage catching on fire and the actual house fire, a double wide trailer (no basement or second floor). There was ample time to get people and animals as well as the most important possessions out. They didn't care enough when they had the time and ability at that time, but expected men with families to run into a fully engulfed buildings to "save" the animals, which were more than likely dead already.

6. The neighboring property that was sprayed down was not a simple a "yard" on fire. If you've ever seen a rural field of cornstalks and dried out weeds go up in flames you'd know it is dangerous and can set much larger areas on fire, including many homes and barns with more people and animals. It's been very dry overall in TN and a great deal of vegetation is dry and combustible right now. Putting out the field fire did not risk mens lives and more than likely prevented further loss of people and homes.

7. As populations increase counties tend to have more volunteers and man power and often the subscription services offered can reflect this. Many offer the same basic deal of a fee paid yearly to cover keeping the volunteer departments operating and trucks fueled. The big difference is that they have the man power to put out the flames without risking being away for the next call when a there is a chance of loss of human life. There are also more fire departments available for common coverage so another fire breaking out doesn't cause further loss of life and property. The county I live in will show up even if one hasn't paid the fee, BUT one will have to pay a hefty price tag to cover the real expenses incurred... $2000 for the call and another $1000 for every hour needed. It can only do so because people of the county have agreed to it and there are enough fire departments available.

8. A recent church fire in my county shows that even under optimal conditions the fire department in rural and spread out areas cannot always do much because of distances required to get there. A building can be too far along for them to do anymore than standby and put out flames that may spread to other structures while "watching" the original continue to burn. It's so easy to put a different "spin" on that watching.

The link that was posted earlier probably has more truth in it and shows how swiftly the uninformed can make judgments and spew venomous hatred about others, including those who had no part one way or the other in the problem. I'll list it again:

Another chief providing subscription service in Obion County, TN writes to STATter911.com. Read the detailed remarks from Chief Kelly Edmison, Union City FD. | STATter911.com
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Old 10-08-2010, 09:44 PM
 
375 posts, read 1,093,995 times
Reputation: 514
I second what J&Em said. I live in a county with all-volunteer fire protection. They don't require a subscription fee but anyone who expects them to "save" their house is a fool. It's not a lack of will, it's a lack of resources and response time. They rely almost exclusively on water tankers and when a call comes in the firemen have to be paged at their day jobs. They do a pretty good job of keeping the fire from spreading to adjoining homes and wooded areas but "total loss" is standard, anything else is winning the lotto. The best they can usually do is to manage the fire so you have a neat pile of cinders to clean up before you rebuild. I know it's a hard concept to grasp for people in urban/suburban areas with a fire hydrant on every corner and a professional fire department with shiny new trucks and equipment but it's a reality of rural life.
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Old 10-09-2010, 09:58 AM
 
Location: southwest TN
8,568 posts, read 18,069,299 times
Reputation: 16702
I grew up in a city in NJ but we had a summer home in a very tiny town with a small a volunteer fire dept for the town and every summer, the firetruck came down our private sandy road to collect the donation so they would protect our bungalow all year long. My parents ALWAYS made the donation and displayed the sticker on the tree near our home (We didn't have windows, only screens with shutters for nasty weather.) This donation was promptly followed by another for the ambulance service which we thankfully never required.

We have now bought a retirement home in rural TN and there is no fire dept - volunteer or otherwise in our town or countywide. At least not that I have been able to find doing an online search. Perhaps that is why our insurance per year is nearly double our taxes.
In the middle, I lived in rural and suburban New England where we had paid fire depts or volunteer, same with ambulance service. We have already made plans to have a back-up water supply from a bladder for our use should we have a fire.

The point is that I have had city fire depts, and volunteer - rural/subscription, but haven't yet had none. The house in which I grew up had a serious fire that began in a basement refrigerator (the spare). The family dog woke my sister up and you better believe she was grabbed and carried out of the house. My uncle, fire chief in another city, came to inspect the next day. He said our fire dept was obviously extremely well-trained as they prevented it from spreading (4 stories) yet didn't cause much damage while looking to see where it had spread. We were lucky the dog caught it early. The next home my parents owned had an electrical fire that began in the attic and destroyed the top 2 floors - rural, volunteer fire dept by donation. This dept also did an excellent job, when they all got there, of preventing the first floor from being engulfed. Again, dog woke the family and the dog was removed with the family.

I've watched as friends and relatives did NOT enjoy family events because they were on-call and heard the siren calling them to a fire or ambulance. I've had dinner interrupted because of a robbery in progress or shots fired. I watched as an ambulance arrived at the scene of an electrocution and the driver unable to do anything because the crew were coming in separate (their own) vehicles. By the way, that gas or mileage was not reimbursed.

If you want to scream at someone for allowing pets to die or a house to burn, there is only one person responsible.

Last edited by NY Annie; 10-09-2010 at 10:20 AM.. Reason: Kitten on keyboard prevented the remainder.
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Old 10-09-2010, 02:52 PM
 
4,923 posts, read 11,166,696 times
Reputation: 3320
Didn't I read some where that bunch had had FOUR fires there in the last 10 years?

Something's wrong there.

How many fires have y'all had in the last 10 years?

I know how many I've had since I've lived on my own for 35 years...

...zero.
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Old 10-09-2010, 03:38 PM
 
Location: The Conterminous United States
22,584 posts, read 54,159,097 times
Reputation: 13614
Quote:
Originally Posted by skinem View Post
Didn't I read some where that bunch had had FOUR fires there in the last 10 years?

Something's wrong there.

How many fires have y'all had in the last 10 years?

I know how many I've had since I've lived on my own for 35 years...

...zero.
I watched the interview he did on MSNBC and he admitted that in the past he or the son had a fire, didn't pay the subscription fee, and the chief let him pay the $75 the next day. If he has done this more than a couple of times no wonder the fire department stood there. The pets were already gone. It was a mobile home that was fully involved yet started outside by the son. Amazing.

I use to be a reporter in small towns with volunteer fire departments. The amount of time those folks spend on training and fighting fires for days is simply amazing not to mention they continuously interrupt and risk their lives for others.
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