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Old 11-04-2011, 09:30 PM
 
Location: Niota, TN
851 posts, read 2,060,412 times
Reputation: 471

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It is not only TN that the police seize property or cash weather the law breaker is the owner or not. Police do it in FL also. And if you loan your car out and the person does something illegal you can lose your car or property. As the owner you have to know the person very well before lending your car. If you rent your house and the renter is busted for drugs you MIGHT get a warning the first time but sometimes they will seize the house.

Just like if you sell your car and that person doesn't register the car in their name and hits someone you can be charge for it. Sure you can fight it but that's a lot of legal fees and aggravation. So it's very important to go with that person to the tag office and get that car out of your name.

I don't know if TN is exactly the same, but that does happen in FL.
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Old 11-09-2011, 12:14 AM
 
Location: Midwest
3,410 posts, read 6,566,603 times
Reputation: 4898
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwkilgore View Post
I also don't have problem with using legally seized property or money to fund police activity. However, I COMPLETELY disagree with seizing property or money without actually charging the owner with a crime.

This activity has occasionally surfaced in the news for many many years, usually pertaining to physical or real property (cars, land) seized from innocent people because they didn't know their property was being used by someone in the drug trade. Maybe marijuana planted way back in some forgotten corner of an old farmer's land by a neighbor or renter, or someone lending a vehicle to a friend.

They can get the property/money back, but the process IS arduous. You have to hire a lawyer and sue the government. The government delays and postpones hoping you will go away. Eventually, after months or even years, after spending thousands in legal fees, a judge finally hears your case and you might get your stuff back.

Back to my original statement, possession of large sums of cash is not illegal. Highly suspicious, yes, but not illegal, and not necessarily related to drugs. If they can substantially link the cash to drugs, then charge the courier and seize the money. Keep the money until trial. If they convict (or get a plea deal), they can keep the money. But no keeping money or property without a conviction.
So you're saying using cash instead of credit cards is probable cause for anything? Slippery slope there.
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Old 11-09-2011, 06:58 AM
 
Location: Chattanooga, TN
2,769 posts, read 3,609,720 times
Reputation: 4229
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwatted Wabbit View Post
So you're saying using cash instead of credit cards is probable cause for anything? Slippery slope there.
No, I am NOT saying that. I specifically said, "...possession of large sums of cash is not illegal. Highly suspicious, yes, but not illegal, and not necessarily related to drugs."

And by large sums of cash, I and most people who are discussing this mean sums in excess of amounts needed for "normal" cash transactions. Most people don't have the need for more than a few hundred in cash on their person. I know people who routinely carry $500-$1000 in case of emergency (one person in her purse against my objections, one person keeps cash hidden in a vehicle). I've had over $1000 on my person right before a long trip or vacation. Maybe if you're a multimillionaire, pay out extravagant cash tips, and have an armed body guard to protect your money, you may have need for a few thousand. I had $17,000 on my person last week, but it was in the form of a cashier's check instead of cash.

Unless you're planning on purchasing a new vehicle with cash, why would you need more than $10,000 on your person? Unless planning on purchasing a HOUSE with cash, why would you be carrying more than $100,000? Just the logistics of carrying that much paper around would be a pain in the rear, which is why it's suspicious.

But again, carrying large sums of cash is NOT illegal. And just because it's highly suspicious doesn't mean it gives probable cause. Maybe you ARE planning on buying a car, so you dig $25k out of the safe buried in your back yard and get stopped for speeding on the way to the dealer. Back to my original statement, the police should not be able to seize property or cash without a direct link to criminal activity.

Last edited by jwkilgore; 11-09-2011 at 07:07 AM..
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Old 11-09-2011, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Niota, TN
851 posts, read 2,060,412 times
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Banks have report any large cash withdrawals, usually $10,000 or more. Although if the teller is suspicious the bank can report the withdrawal even for less than $10,000 anyway. So the authorities know about that as well, no matter if you are doing anything illegal or not. Even though drug dealers more than likely don't put their money in the bank or at least not all of it.

A little of subject but also about authorities and cash.
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Old 11-10-2011, 05:47 PM
 
3,789 posts, read 6,101,005 times
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There are many times when people will accept cash only. I remember a friend of mine bought a restored antique car for $12k cash and he had to drive through several states to pick it up. Good thing he didn't have to go through Tennessee.
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Old 11-10-2011, 07:30 PM
 
28 posts, read 40,034 times
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Well I hope this is not true. We will be moving to Tn in the summer and I do plan on having cash with me (over $20K in cash) I am not a drug dealer but dont trust banks after they froze my Mom's for debts she never really had.
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Old 11-10-2011, 08:02 PM
 
Location: Niota, TN
851 posts, read 2,060,412 times
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Not to mention it's just NOT SAFE to carry large amounts of money around with you!
A lot of things could happen and you could loose all of it (car accident, fire, theft). Atleast if you have bank checks (even if you have several small amounts) and something happened you could contact the bank that issued them and get a replacement. Can't replace the cash. If you travel take some in cash and the rest in travlers checks or bank check.
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Old 11-10-2011, 08:50 PM
 
670 posts, read 595,923 times
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I keep a few thousand in cash for emergencies and it is nobodies business why or what I use it for. I prefer to use cash myself. Particularly during the Holidays so I don't get carried away with the cards. I have a friend who owns a business that caters to cash transactions. Routinely he has in his possession sums much larger than $10,000. A neighbor of mine owns a convenience store and also deals in large amounts of cash. Much more than $10,000. Oh, and I think the person who stated that the banks report sums of $10,000 withdrawn from a bank or more is quite mistaken. It is on deposits not withdraws. I have withdrawn large sums many times and it isn't reported. You have to fill out additional paperwork and reports are sent on deposits. I learned after a prosperous trip to Vegas to deposit in lower increments.
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Old 11-10-2011, 09:31 PM
 
670 posts, read 595,923 times
Reputation: 1191
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLORIDA TO NIOTA 2010 View Post
It is not only TN that the police seize property or cash weather the law breaker is the owner or not. Police do it in FL also. And if you loan your car out and the person does something illegal you can lose your car or property. As the owner you have to know the person very well before lending your car. If you rent your house and the renter is busted for drugs you MIGHT get a warning the first time but sometimes they will seize the house.

Just like if you sell your car and that person doesn't register the car in their name and hits someone you can be charge for it. Sure you can fight it but that's a lot of legal fees and aggravation. So it's very important to go with that person to the tag office and get that car out of your name.

I don't know if TN is exactly the same, but that does happen in FL.
Civil forfeiture laws are different for each state. Some put the burden on the state and some put the burden on the not convicted person to prove guilt or innocence when it comes to asset forfeiture. When the burden is on the individual my personal opinion is it is a front to the Constitution and a illegal law. In principle, some might find it just but I believe it leads to corruption and policing for profit. Taking property for the mere fact that it is in someones possession and they have a amount of it that you think is inappropriate is neither moral or legal, IMHO.
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Old 11-11-2011, 06:53 AM
 
Location: Chattanooga, TN
2,769 posts, read 3,609,720 times
Reputation: 4229
Quote:
Originally Posted by trinjoy View Post
Well I hope this is not true. We will be moving to Tn in the summer and I do plan on having cash with me (over $20K in cash) I am not a drug dealer but dont trust banks after they froze my Mom's for debts she never really had.
I understand not trusting banks, and I'm sorry that happened to your mom. But there's a huge difference between keeping $20,000 in cash hidden in a secure location at your house and traveling with that much money. I wouldn't be worried so much about the police seizing it, but just security in general. I'm curious... when you're carrying around over $20k, what happens if you're in a car wreck and it catches fire? What if you're robbed... do you carry a weapon? What if the car is stolen while you're taking a restroom break? Are you carrying 200+ $100 bills, or is it in huge stacks of $20's, or is it in gold bars?

Personally, even if I didn't trust banks, before traveling with that much cash I'd go to a bank and exchange it for a guaranteed cashier's check, money order, or a traveler's check. Do this with smaller sums at a several banks if you don't trust any one of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhult View Post
I keep a few thousand in cash for emergencies and it is nobodies business why or what I use it for. I prefer to use cash myself. Particularly during the Holidays so I don't get carried away with the cards. I have a friend who owns a business that caters to cash transactions. Routinely he has in his possession sums much larger than $10,000. A neighbor of mine owns a convenience store and also deals in large amounts of cash. Much more than $10,000. Oh, and I think the person who stated that the banks report sums of $10,000 withdrawn from a bank or more is quite mistaken. It is on deposits not withdraws. I have withdrawn large sums many times and it isn't reported. You have to fill out additional paperwork and reports are sent on deposits. I learned after a prosperous trip to Vegas to deposit in lower increments.
There's a difference between a business handling lots of cash (presumably they'll have receipts and paperwork to document the money) and someone's personal stash. But $10,000+ seems extreme even for a business. Why bother running afoul of the FBI by robbing a bank when you can rob Dhult's friends and get away with much more money? Do they really have that much cash at hand at any one time, or do they simply go through and deposit that much over the course of a week?

The reason carrying so much cash is suspicious is because it's so dangerous. My mom has worked with money her whole life as an accountant or bookkeeper for various stores and organizations. She routinely carries large sums of cash (in a bank bag, with a deposit slip) to the bank for deposit. She also carries a Lady Smith revolver at all times, and the trip to the bank is fairly short. I'm pretty sure she's never had anything approaching $10,000 on her at any one time.

Back to the original post, I think there's a misconception as to how this works. It's not like the police just pull people over at random and seize any money they find. They DO have to have some sort of probable cause before searching a vehicle. And if they found Dhult's $2,000 stash or trinjoy's $20,000 stash it could easily be explained. "I'm moving into the state (see the furniture?) and I don't trust banks."

I randomly picked $10,000 for my earlier post, but watch the video again. Look at those massive bundles of cash. That's WAY more than $10,000, unless we're looking at bundles of $1 bills.

And yet again, I'm not defending the police on this; carrying large sums of cash is not and should never be illegal. Seizing any sort of property without an arrest and conviction should never be allowed.
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