choosing a southern home plan (homes, landscaping, roofing)
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We live inside Cookeville city limits, so we've no issue with septic systems. Having now done three MIL apartments in three different homes in three towns and two states, I consider myself somewhat of an "amateur expert."
Basically, and I think Cookeville is no exception but I'm not 100% on this, what makes a dwelling a multifamily dwelling is the presence of an oven with 220 wiring. In Florida, the county zoning people would not have approved a second oven/range in our home. This is because once you have two ovens, you officially have two kitchens and that makes it a multifamily dwelling in an area zoned single family. HOWEVER, lots and lots of people either (a) just do it anyway (nothing is going to happen to you, don't worry, there are no MIL suite police); (b) draw up the plans to include a "kiln" because there are so many, many potters in the world. Everyone knows that it's for a MIL apartment but it passes zoning muster (now this is in FL and might not be specific to Cookeville, but more on this later) and the zoning guy is happy, the contractor--if you have one--is happy, you're happy, the MIL is happy. Happy happy.
Here's a basic rundown of my three MIL suite experiences:
(1) Basic 1500-sf tract house on a larger than average sized lot.
WHAT WE DID: What we did here was to add a 950-sf addition. Most of the addition went to the MIL apartment but about 150 sf went to enlarging the master bedroom in the existing house. Obviously, this required permitting because it changed the footprint of the house. We had a sort of alley in the back that ran along behind the houses on our street and had two points of entry. We took advantage of that alley and constructed a small parking pad at the rear of the property, making a separate entrance for my mother as well as her own parking area. This worked pretty well. We also did the "kiln" thing (wink wink) but elected only to install a four-burner cooktop and not an oven or a range. My mother used our oven on the very few occasions she needed one. These days it would be almost completely unnecessary with the advent of those gigantor toaster ovens that you can cook a big frozen pizza in (even a small turkey), but this was in 1993 and those were not readily available. Also, if the MIL in question is Paula Deenesque, it might be more of a consideration. The suite included a decent-sized bedroom, glorious bathroom that was actually a contractor error but we decided to keep it, and a living room that was open to the kitchen/dining area. The suite connected to the rest of the house through a set of french doors that led into an office, and also through a tiny laundry room that we shared and that was accessible from both the MIL suite and our part of the house.
We also added a small septic tank and drain field to accommodate the extra bathroom and kitchen area. We had to either do that or dig the existing one up and enlarge it/add a new tank. As it happened, our house was one of the few on the street that didn't have to have its septic system replaced. I'm convinced it's because we put in the extra field and had the washer and dryer draining to it, taking strain off the existing system. Enough about septic issues. Gross.
THINGS WE LEARNED:
1. Older ladies don't really need whirlpool tubs and in fact these can be a bit hazardous. Large step in to get a shower.
2. Older ladies also don't really need hard, slippery tile floors. Not that safe.
3. Older ladies also don't really need the bells and whistles of a very updated, pricey kitchen unless that's what they want. They are ok with functional and attractive. No need for top-of-the-line cabinetry, etc.
4. Adding to the footprint of your home with an addition is kind of expensive.
(2) Custom, 3000-sf two-level home built for the developer in a rural town 20 minutes from the first house. 2400 sf with laundry room, gorgeous back porch on main floor; 600 sf walk-out basement (pretty much unheard of in FL) on the bottom floor. Stairs leading down from the main living area to the basement but also two outside separate entrances.
WHAT WE DID: Gave my mother the walkout basement area. It originally consisted of a full bathroom, extremely strange storage room that contained the underbelly of a huge hot tub along with supports, a weird little office type room, and a big 16x16 bedroom with sliding glass doors. The bedroom was fine as it was, as was the bathroom. We made the weird office area into a small kitchen, complete with range this time. We also wired the strange storage room for a stack washer and dryer so my mother would have her own laundry facilities and not have to cart laundry up and down the stairs. She had her own walled garden area and it was actually really nice down there. This time we gave her decent but not fabulous cabinets, a basic (smaller than average, I think maybe 20 inch) range, and had the fridge area hooked up for an icemaker. Fortunately, the cabinetmaker who did the original cabinets in the house lived across the street, so that was pretty cool. We had to hire an electrician and a plumber and we paid the same guy who did the original plans for the addition to our first house I think $150 to draw up simple plans for this mini-reno. If I am remembering correctly, we did it for less than $6-8K. Also, and this is important: For both houses, we had separate heat pump/central air units. One for the MIL apt and one for the rest of the house. KEY. Old ladies like their house temp way different than burly lumberjack type men and little kids. This house happened to come with two separate septic systems, one for the downstairs and one for the rest of the house, so we were set there.
THINGS WE LEARNED:
1. You really are better off having a totally separate entrance. My mother did have a separate entrance but it was on the opposite side of the house from the garage, so she would have had to traipse all through the backyard to get to her house and that's just not practical.
2. Old ladies sometimes get a little hard of hearing, so if they watch loud TV, don't locate their TV area right underneath your bedroom or you'll have nightmares that you live above a bar.
3. Having separate laundry facilities is really a good idea.
4. Finding a house that will work for a MIL suite conversion is much, much cheaper than building an addition onto one that won't.
(3) Our current home in Cookeville. It's somewhere between 3200-3500 sf. When we were looking for a home, we had weird requirements due to the knowledge that we would be converting a part of the home to a MIL apartment. Space was key but so was layout. When I saw this home, I knew it was a possibility. Originally it had a giant laundry room with enough cabinets to outfit a kitchen, plus a half bath and then also a big but weird den that had no central air/heat and that was sunken. I knew this could be the new MIL apartment with some work.
WHAT WE DID: We converted the old laundry room/den/half bath area into a completely self-contained MIL apartment with its own laundry, full bath, kitchen, bedroom and small sitting area for my mom to watch TV.
First, with all three of these conversions we met with a residential designer and had plans drawn. The lady we met with here was great. She drew up plans to raise the floor so that it was just a step down from the kitchen and entrance of the house into the bedroom and sitting areas. We also had to add a separate heat pump-A/C unit, but this was fine because that's really important anyway, to be able to have the MIL control her own temp in her house. She originally designed the bedroom/living area as one room, but we changed that to a small sitting room and separate bedroom. We reused the laundry room cabinets, saving several thousand dollars, and we left the laundry room sink and cabinetry as it was, also saving money. This became the new kitchen sink. We moved the laundry hookups to the bathroom and enlarged the half bath to accommodate a shower area and also the washer and dryer. There are three closets in the new space.
We elected not to install a range because (1) it's really overkill; (2) the electric service would probably need to be upgraded and that was an expense we elected not to incur at this time. So my mother has a hot plate, microwave, and one of those gigantic toaster ovens along with a good amount of counter space and lots of cabinets. She also has a small table and chairs in the kitchen.
In doing that, we needed to locate a laundry area in the main house. We elected to create a new laundry area on the second floor of the house. We took one of the upstairs bedrooms and converted it to a giant walk in closet (I think it's 9x16 or something) and then the other half has the recessed front loaders up on a reinforced platform. It's also an office area at the moment. We had the residential designer also draw up plans to convert the attic area that is actually an unfinished room on that same level, accessible through a door, into a new master bedroom suite. While the workers were here, we had them wire and plumb that attic space as well as run a/c ducting and install the vents, etc. We have not yet converted that room into the master suite, but it's basically a matter of finishing it off with insulation, drywall, flooring, etc., and then installing the bathroom fixtures. There is one window in that space, so we would probably be adding a skylight.
THINGS WE LEARNED:
1. It's really not a good idea for MIL and the woman of the house to share a kitchen, even if they are mother-daughter. Just. Say. No. Trust me. Don't do it. My mom stayed in one of the bedrooms for several months while we were getting her place ready and that is just too much togetherness.
2. Again, renovating an existing space is much cheaper than adding to the footprint of a house. This renovation was much more expensive than the last one, but we did a lot more, too. Plus, we had to replace our furnace and do some structural work to the house that all coincided with the renovation and it's hard to break out what $$ was for that and what was strictly reno work. We also put in a larger water heater that services both houses (previously we had had one for each house) and that's worked out just fine.
3. Separate entrances are really the way to go, but you have to locate them so both are close to parking areas. It's just not practical any other way.
4. As my mother ages, I see the wisdom of having as few steps as possible to get from the car area to her living space. She is in great health at age 84, but that may not always be the case and it's best to be prepared.
OK, now back to the zoning stuff: You need to factor your adherence to zoning codes into your future plans. If you move, the house will be appraised and they do look at that sometimes (depending on the appraiser). We had two appraisers who didn't care and one who did (had one house appraised twice). The higher you go in house value, the less they seem to care. However, if you are not going to do anything that requires pulling a permit, and generally if you are not adding to the footprint of the house/adding a second floor, etc., you probably don't need one, then it's going to be a factor. I highly HIGHLY recommend just trying to find a house that you can work with and renovate to accommodate your family's needs, rather than trying to add an addition to an already-existing structure. It wasn't a bad decision to do the addition in our first MIL apartment adventure, but it's just more cost-effective to use the space you already have.
We acted as our own contractor all three times, but we didn't do a lot of the work. This saved us quite a bit of money and allowed us to have more control over the project. You may or may not have the same kind of time available to do this. We subbed out nearly everything this third time here in Cookeville: Electric, plumbing, construction, AC/heating, structural work. I find we really need that kind of control over these types of projects, but you may not. We ended up finding this pair of guys who worked on an hourly basis. One guy had all the plumbing/electrician knowledge and one was sort of the overseer.
I'm guessing this is long enough so I will stop now. Hope someone finds this helpful!
Holy cow, after reading your post, I want to add a MIL suite onto my house!! I enjoyed learning about your experiences.
In one of my classes last night we read how many Southern Europeans don't understand how we Americans seem to prefer paying nursing homes to take care of our elderly parents. I should copy your message and have my students read it to show that there are people like you who are willing to do so much in order to take care of your mother during her golden years.
Thank you for sharing your experiences. (And you're a mighty fine writer, too.)
It's been an interesting adventure. One of the best things we've done is pay a nominal amount for design advice at the outset. It's not an architect-level project but it also is probably not too smart just to make up your own plan unless you have a real background in that and know how to draw plans so contractors will understand where this wiring or that stud goes. The design lady for this project actually more than earned her fee when she designed our future master suite by placing the laundry facilities and new walk-in closet into the existing bedroom. We would never have thought of that but it was brilliant. Eventually we will have one big suite with a sitting room, master bath, bedroom and giant walk-in closet and we'd have never designed it that way ourselves.
I was very close to my father and he died almost 20 years ago to the day. I figure one day I am going to see him again and I want to be able to say that we took care of my mom, because I know that's what he would want, you know?
It's been an interesting adventure. One of the best things we've done is pay a nominal amount for design advice at the outset. It's not an architect-level project but it also is probably not too smart just to make up your own plan unless you have a real background in that and know how to draw plans so contractors will understand where this wiring or that stud goes. The design lady for this project actually more than earned her fee when she designed our future master suite by placing the laundry facilities and new walk-in closet into the existing bedroom. We would never have thought of that but it was brilliant. Eventually we will have one big suite with a sitting room, master bath, bedroom and giant walk-in closet and we'd have never designed it that way ourselves.
I was very close to my father and he died almost 20 years ago to the day. I figure one day I am going to see him again and I want to be able to say that we took care of my mom, because I know that's what he would want, you know?
Although we have never met, Wordy, I just want to say how proud of you I am and your father would be, too. You set a wonderful example for all of us.
I had a similar experience with my folks, and wouldn't have missed a single moment of those last days and weeks together. You are a treasure to your mother and father.
I did not get to live near my parents in my adult life. I did speak with them daily via phone and we visited a few times a year. I made trips more often as I could afford it and as they got older.
I flew into Chgo when my mother had her lung transplant at age 60 and we visited often. I flew to Chgo the week she passed on as well.
When my father passed away 11 years later, I flew to chicago and took time off of work so that he could have hospice in his own home.
I was in the mall two years ago and a woman in her 40's was shopping with her mother. She was yelling at her mother. I went up to her and said" I would give anything to have another day with my mother". "You do not understand how lucky you are". She got a tear in her eye and said you know, I am sorry. You are right.
I really really appreciate all the posts here.
Wordy, all the info you provided is simply awesome There is so much info there and it will be really helpful in my search for land/house.
My MiL and I get on really well, but I would like her to have her own "space".
I am sure we will end up infiltrating each others spaces, but thats just fine by me!
My IP got banned all weekend (once again!) although I have not made any malignant posts! Hence the late reply. I really love this forum, it has made me feel much more confident about taking on this relocation
Where did you find your home plan? Has anyone used any of the companies that are commonly found online with a large amount of plans and did the plans work out well for you or were revisions needed?
While I have added onto homes, I have never had one built from the ground up and would appreciate some input as to how you went about choosing a plan.
Robbied, do you know which builders build in and around Cookeville?
maybe they do go that far. I did take advice and call some of the title agencies and a real estate office. You might want to do the same. I asked 5 different people and chose the builders who's name I heard more than once.
Please check your prospective builder's current projects.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbied
maybe they do go that far. I did take advice and call some of the title agencies and a real estate office. You might want to do the same. I asked 5 different people and chose the builders who's name I heard more than once.
Robbied, and anyone else wanting to build, this is a little advice given to me and boy, am I glad I listened! Don't just go by word of mouth. Recommendations from realtors and checking with the title agencies is a good place to start, but it is so important to see the work of each builder that you are considering.
And, I am not talking about driving past his houses or through one of his developments. I mean, find at least 3, and preferably as many as 5, of his homes in various stages of build.
You want to know how he does his foundations. Is he pouring basements or using cinder block? Is he water-proofing the exterior foundation wall and providing a drainage system around it These things you don't see when the home is done and all of that pretty landscaping hides the "real" house.
Is he placing studs 16" on center? Is he using proper headers over his doorways and windows? Is he using good grade studs or are some of them warped or split? Are his subfloors screwed (you hope) or just nailed down? Is he using drywall nails or just what ever is handy? Is he trying to make a cross beam fit when it wasn't cut right to begin with or is he redoing a cut so it is just right? Is his electrical panel large enough so that he doesn't have too many lines (more than 5) on a circuit?
You only know these things by being on site with his projects. You should know this man and his building practices as well as you would know you child's peditrician before entrusting him with anything so precious to you.
If a builder does not want to show anything he is doing under construction, but only finished homes - turn and walk away. There is another good builder out there that you can find. Do this leg work. You won't be sorry that you took the time.
Last edited by gemkeeper; 10-03-2007 at 09:19 PM..
Reason: sp.
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It sounds beautiful for Mom!
There is so much info there and it will be really helpful in my search for land/house.
Please check your prospective builder's current projects.
