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Old 02-08-2013, 10:51 AM
 
4,989 posts, read 4,492,429 times
Reputation: 4569

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Wow tennyooper, it seems like a wonderful thing that you have found this relocation website because you clearly are unhappy.
I checked to see where you were from and came across this lovely post from a few days ago:
http://www.city-data.com/forum/28070802-post129.html

Just a few highlights:
1. People in TN think everyone from above the TN line is from NYC.
2. The water is so polluted here that no one can swim or fish for food, so people here can only fish for sport.
3. The big city (Nashville, I assume since he mentioned Middle TN) is filthy, crime-ridden, dangerous, and so congested with high traffic, and some of the rudest people he has ever met.
4. The people in TN get their beliefs straight out of the KKK handbook.


Those are just a few of the gems from the post. The place your describing sounds terrible, I'm so grateful that I live in Middle TN, which is nothing like the Middle TN you describe. People should definitely try to live in an area where they are happy, and no one place is right for everyone. But you can still find happiness in the journey if you have a good attitude.

There's a saying that comes to mind, wherever you go, there you are.
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Old 02-08-2013, 02:50 PM
 
1,380 posts, read 1,779,071 times
Reputation: 2364
People way exagerate the effects of taxation. In most cases, people move for a job or to be near family. A few people are lucky enough to handpick a destination for scenery or climate, and those are usually retirees. Once you consider the high sales tax, which applies to nearly everything, taxes here aren't all that much lower than in most places. Housing, however, is notably cheaper and that's likely to make more of a difference than taxes.
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Old 02-08-2013, 03:09 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,889 posts, read 20,323,976 times
Reputation: 8606
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastmemphisguy View Post
People way exagerate the effects of taxation. In most cases, people move for a job or to be near family. A few people are lucky enough to handpick a destination for scenery or climate, and those are usually retirees. Once you consider the high sales tax, which applies to nearly everything, taxes here aren't all that much lower than in most places. Housing, however, is notably cheaper and that's likely to make more of a difference than taxes.
Which is why we drive to Kentucky twice a month and buy groceries and whatever else we need. No tax on groceries, and the sales tax is cheaper.

Best of both worlds.
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:09 PM
 
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
22,534 posts, read 46,107,331 times
Reputation: 13303
Another thing that I've never brought up, nor have I noticed anyone doing so, either, is the cost of things like food, etc. This is another one of those things that is a matter of perspective, depends on where you are from. We can drone on and on about the sales tax - and even with that we are dead last to 47th in the country, depending on who you talk to, for tax burden - but the cost of a lot of this stuff is less here. I've had friends and family come to visit and they are shocked by how cheap a lot of things like food, clothes, etc. So even those things are taxed, sometimes the prices are still cheaper than a lot of places. That's not even discussing gas, car insurance and electricity. Then there is the matter of real estate and rents...
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Old 02-10-2013, 09:59 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
21,034 posts, read 15,336,412 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiknapster View Post
Another thing that I've never brought up, nor have I noticed anyone doing so, either, is the cost of things like food, etc. This is another one of those things that is a matter of perspective, depends on where you are from. We can drone on and on about the sales tax - and even with that we are dead last to 47th in the country, depending on who you talk to, for tax burden - but the cost of a lot of this stuff is less here. I've had friends and family come to visit and they are shocked by how cheap a lot of things like food, clothes, etc. So even those things are taxed, sometimes the prices are still cheaper than a lot of places. That's not even discussing gas, car insurance and electricity. Then there is the matter of real estate and rents...
I'd like to know where these people came from and if they are shopping at equivalent places, because I do not believe a word you're saying unless they are all coming from NY, NJ, CA, Chicago, or other similarly high priced areas. The cost of food, at least in parts of TN east of Knoxville, is very high compared to the prevailing income, in my opinion. Most food products I buy here are at least 10%-25% more expensive, before tax, compared to when I lived in Des Moines IA, and the residents make far less income, meaning that the average TN resident is spending a much higher percentage of income on food than the average IA resident. These are comparing prices of one Target to another. Clothing is essentially the same as it was in IA, except IA has a lower sales tax.

Tennesseans, on average, are poorer than residents of most other states, and if a purchasing power parity measure was done for a basket of grocery items on the median income in TN vs. IA, or any other reasonably well off Midwest state, I'd bet my bottom dollar that the Tennessean comes out worse off than the Midwesterner. If you want me to dredge up ads of comparable stores (Target/Target, Hyvee/Food City), I'd be glad to. Tennessee's groceries may be "cheap" compared to where you are from in Taxachusetts, but they are not "cheap" relative to the average low prevailing wage of the area, or cheap in absolute terms compared to areas that are simply doing better. I can't speak for how middle or west TN are faring, as I just don't know enough about their markets.

My car insurance in TN is about $400 more a year than in Iowa. High gas bills are virtually required due to how spread out things are and how far many people in rural TN work from their employment center. Virtually all of my colleagues are driving at least 60 miles round trip for jobs that pay mostly under $15/hr. Another guy in my department is driving a Suburban 100 miles round trip for $12/hr, no benefits, no insurance, no overtime pay.

There is a lot of TN hype promoted on these boards from some of the frequent fliers, but the seedy underbelly of TN is that few people make enough to really have TN's low tax environment seriously work in their favor. At my current $12.30/hr annual income, I'd pay little net state income tax almost anywhere, but TN's sales tax hits me for an absolute amount that can't be deducted, itemized, rebated out, etc. I am a BA degreed professional, with several years of experience, and industry certifications (which have been a total waste of time, effort, and money, CCNA, CCNA-Security, CCDA, Sec+, GSEC, A+, ITIL V3 Foundations). I'm not a high-end professional, but I'm certainly not a nobody. Given how poorly valued my profession is in TN (IT), it is a wonder anyone stays here as a certified IT infrastructure professional to make literally Wal-Mart retail wages. I should be making $50k, minimum, in TN, I make less than half that, and am treated as trash because I'm not an educator or in health care.

Low taxes are great, and as a conservative, I support lower taxes on everyone. But if your savings in taxes are far less than you'd make in post-tax wages, you'd better move to a state where you'll simply generate more income.

Last edited by Serious Conversation; 02-10-2013 at 10:14 PM..
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:22 PM
 
4,829 posts, read 4,813,163 times
Reputation: 6172
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
As for industries, I knew about the auto industry, but I was wondering about other industries. Are there any job incubators in the state, for example or are many of the jobs just companies that relocate due to the lower taxes?
New Deal Leftover - TVA (federally owned corporation created to promote economic development in Tennessee Valley)

Leftovers of Manhattan Project - Y12 (national security complex) & ORNL (Oak Ridge National Laboratory). Both are true golden troughs for the state and major sources of very decent income & benefits for the people. Some folks commute 100 miles one way, no kidding.

Smokey Mountains National Park & vast service industry it supports.

Coal is back.

Memphis & Nashville music heritage still is in demand.
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Old 02-11-2013, 07:25 AM
 
4,989 posts, read 4,492,429 times
Reputation: 4569
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emigrations View Post
I'd like to know where these people came from and if they are shopping at equivalent places, because I do not believe a word you're saying unless they are all coming from NY, NJ, CA, Chicago, or other similarly high priced areas. The cost of food, at least in parts of TN east of Knoxville, is very high compared to the prevailing income, in my opinion. Most food products I buy here are at least 10%-25% more expensive, before tax, compared to when I lived in Des Moines IA, and the residents make far less income, meaning that the average TN resident is spending a much higher percentage of income on food than the average IA resident. These are comparing prices of one Target to another. Clothing is essentially the same as it was in IA, except IA has a lower sales tax.

Tennesseans, on average, are poorer than residents of most other states, and if a purchasing power parity measure was done for a basket of grocery items on the median income in TN vs. IA, or any other reasonably well off Midwest state, I'd bet my bottom dollar that the Tennessean comes out worse off than the Midwesterner. If you want me to dredge up ads of comparable stores (Target/Target, Hyvee/Food City), I'd be glad to. Tennessee's groceries may be "cheap" compared to where you are from in Taxachusetts, but they are not "cheap" relative to the average low prevailing wage of the area, or cheap in absolute terms compared to areas that are simply doing better. I can't speak for how middle or west TN are faring, as I just don't know enough about their markets.

My car insurance in TN is about $400 more a year than in Iowa. High gas bills are virtually required due to how spread out things are and how far many people in rural TN work from their employment center. Virtually all of my colleagues are driving at least 60 miles round trip for jobs that pay mostly under $15/hr. Another guy in my department is driving a Suburban 100 miles round trip for $12/hr, no benefits, no insurance, no overtime pay.

There is a lot of TN hype promoted on these boards from some of the frequent fliers, but the seedy underbelly of TN is that few people make enough to really have TN's low tax environment seriously work in their favor. At my current $12.30/hr annual income, I'd pay little net state income tax almost anywhere, but TN's sales tax hits me for an absolute amount that can't be deducted, itemized, rebated out, etc. I am a BA degreed professional, with several years of experience, and industry certifications (which have been a total waste of time, effort, and money, CCNA, CCNA-Security, CCDA, Sec+, GSEC, A+, ITIL V3 Foundations). I'm not a high-end professional, but I'm certainly not a nobody. Given how poorly valued my profession is in TN (IT), it is a wonder anyone stays here as a certified IT infrastructure professional to make literally Wal-Mart retail wages. I should be making $50k, minimum, in TN, I make less than half that, and am treated as trash because I'm not an educator or in health care.

Low taxes are great, and as a conservative, I support lower taxes on everyone. But if your savings in taxes are far less than you'd make in post-tax wages, you'd better move to a state where you'll simply generate more income.
I'm sorry you are having a hard time. Grocies are really high right now, but that's not just in TN. Grocery prices have risen everywhere over the past few years and are expected to rise another 4% this year:
Rising prices may cost you $100 a month

I'm careful with spending and stock up during sales, order produce from CSAs, etc. to save money and our grocery bill has doubled in the past couple of years. Part of it is rising prices and part of it is my children getting bigger. I usually have a few coupons, so my tax ends up being over 10% of my bill, and it is jarring. I'm okay with sales tax instead of income tax, but I would like to see most or all of the tax removed on food. Not so much for myself, we can afford it, but for people who are struggling to make ends meet. For clothing, people can shop consignment, etc. and keep their prices low. But everyone has to eat, and you can't stockpile milk.

Just curious, did you have a job before you moved here? We always try to encourage everyone to get a job before moving so they will know exactly what their salary will be. Then you can better decide if it is worth the move. We have friends who are certified IT people in Nashville who do well. The IT guy at my husband's old work made more than the engineers because he got time and a half overtime, so he was making a very comfortable 6 figure income.

My MIL lives in a small town and on a $10 a hour income, she was able to buy a cute 3/2 house with a nice yard and she has a newer model car. Some towns here are really inexpensive and you can live fine on a low income. But there are some trade offs, as the cheaper towns usually have worse schools, less restaurants, shopping, etc.
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Old 02-11-2013, 09:26 AM
 
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
22,534 posts, read 46,107,331 times
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It is true that groceries prices have risen, recently. But family in Florida and Mass. are amazed at the prices that we pay as opposed to what it costs for them. Since insurance was brought up - and I'm a licensed insurance agent in 43 states - when we moved from Florida to Knoxville our insurance was cut in HALF. Same coverages - sort of, TN isn't a PIP state but there is the equivalent. Same vehicles, same credit score, same record, same insurance company. HALF.

I get that there may not be a savings if you are coming from the Midwest, moving from Iowa, but if you are moving from many other states there is a significant difference. Don't even get me going on heating and electricity costs. I pay a significant difference compared to when we lived in Florida and what family now pay. I pay a FRACTION of what my family and friends in Mass pay.

But if your only experience is Iowa and Tenn I can see why you wouldn't understand why folks are carrying on about the savings.
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:19 AM
 
Location: chattanooga
352 posts, read 700,877 times
Reputation: 281
Here is what I can post about Chattanooga, for the original poster:

Former entrepreneur John Wilson helping to build Chattanooga's Gig City | timesfreepress.com

Value of business tax incentives debated | timesfreepress.com

Venture Incubator | Lamp Post Group | Chattanooga, TN

Launch Chattanooga

Angel Investors Targeting Chattanooga Entrepreneurs – Tues 1PM EST | John Martin Small Business Roundtable

Entrepreneurship, from Tennessee to Turkey A Smarter Planet Blog

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/21/op...ment.html?_r=0

These are just a few examples of why major businesses, like VW and Amazon came here. This is why major insurance companies stay here and why the self made billionairs keep their money in this town

Aside from the fact that we have railroad and access to major interstates and highways and are 2 hours from major cities.

So, there you have it. Aside from the major tax incentives given to business, venture capitalist for the smaller businesses. Free suppor to get businesses running , the gig, the lost cost of living, the availablity to SUCCEED.

The poor and low income people in this town are now being forced to become productive citizens, which is great. They have had generation after generation of keeping the hand out. The new housing being built comes with strings attached, ie, must have a job within a year, or enrolled in school, or higher education, must revolve out within 3 yrs, etc, etc.

Give a decade or so of that, and this will be a completely successful city.
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Old 02-12-2013, 06:18 AM
 
3,108 posts, read 2,736,947 times
Reputation: 4416
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiknapster View Post
It is true that groceries prices have risen, recently. But family in Florida and Mass. are amazed at the prices that we pay as opposed to what it costs for them. Since insurance was brought up - and I'm a licensed insurance agent in 43 states - when we moved from Florida to Knoxville our insurance was cut in HALF. Same coverages - sort of, TN isn't a PIP state but there is the equivalent. Same vehicles, same credit score, same record, same insurance company. HALF. .
I moved from San Francisco to Nashville, same vehicle, same everything and my insurance nearly doubled.
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