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Old 02-13-2013, 06:38 AM
 
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Are we allowed to discuss? I'd love to be able to discuss only what is going on in the Tennessee Legislature this session.

Beyond Stacey Campfield....

1) Charter schools. I don't understand why the legislature is hell bent on taking away local control from the schools. Local control is at the center of the Republican tenets. It seems like they are trying to punish Memphis and Nashville and now all the other districts across the state will have to pay too. Williamson County doesn't need charter schools and neither do most of the districts in the state.

2) Guns in parking lots. This one I just can't figure out. Every major business says they are against it and yet the legislature is for it. This might be one of the most anti-job bills out there.
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Old 02-13-2013, 08:11 AM
 
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I gave up on immersing myself in politics because of the corruption, but against my better judgement, here are a couple of thoughts.....

(I am not partisan) but i believe the Republicans think they can get something for nothing by pushing the charter school agenda. If my kid is going to a non public school so as to keep him away from the riff-raff, getting the public to foot that bill for a charter school puts my kid in an 'exclusive' environment away from the great unwashed, and it is done at taxpayer expense.

Ultimately i think this will be a constitutional issue and charter schools will be required to take on all comers, or they will be folded...into public schools. The money which is siphoned off to get the 'cream of the crop' into a private/charter school setting just destroys public school funding. Much of the cost of funding public schools goes into 'special needs' children (think in terms of the average public school cost being about $12 or $13,000 per pupil, but special needs kids can easily run up to $200,000 with aids and other programs), If you take away the 'good' kids and their funds, the 'bad' kids in public schools will be woefully underfunded, and thus the entire education bill goes up, or the quality of education goes down. Not a good thing.

Guns.....this is all about economics. The NRA is a HUGE lobbying force for the gun manufacturers. Cleverly they have somehow gotten the public to buy into their message and fund the efforts to ensure that the gun manufacturers don't have to stand up and say 'we need more guns'. The NRA does this for them.

And who is behind the 'big business' of guns? Republican business men. So while on the surface they may ask for 'gun control', behind the scenes, and with little bits of benign legislation, they push their agenda forward.

The gun things reminds me of the liquor by the drink argument of years gone by. Secretly the business community was making a bundle off of the bootleg business, so publicly they opposed liquor by the drink. There is ALWAYS an agenda...watch what they do; not what they say.

I am not picking on Republicans, they just happen to be in power here in TN. They are all ego maniacs with despicable behaviors and an agenda of 'get as much for me and my cronies as i can' mentalities. You and i get the scraps...and the bill.
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Old 02-13-2013, 11:22 AM
 
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I never really understood the charter school issue in Davidson County...on either side of it.

The state wanted MNPS to approve the charter school application from Great Hearts "if they met specific conditions". MNPS wanted Great Hearts to address diversity to their liking...apparently they didn't. Metro denied the application despite orders from the state. The state responded by withholding $3.4 million in non-instructional funding.

Every side is saying they're doing it for the kids. Politics.


I'm not sure who I side with, or if I side with anyone. I know Metro wants to be as PC as possible, but perhaps they should realize that their own schools have greatly varying degrees of diversity -- so why should charter schools be held to a different standard?

I sort of understand the state's position, because they are trying to improve the image of public education here as a whole...and they see charter schools as a way to help accomplish that. But withholding funds, even non-instructional funds, ultimately does punish the children, who have absolutely no say in this matter.


This seems like one of those unnecessary political games where both sides need to back down.




Guns in parking lots -- certainly less stupid than 'guns in bars'...but what purpose does it truly serve? I can understand the idea that conceal-carry can actually make a place safer...but it's not something that should be universally applied. But how does guns in parking lots help? If a fight breaks out, people can all run to their cars to get their guns? I don't know. Perhaps the idea is that if there are more guns in an area, criminals might be a little more cautious in picking their targets.

Still, I think it is a blow to the property rights of businesses/business owners (whom interestingly enough, tend to support Republicans...that's a big part of their base). And as this article from the Chattanooga Times Free Press brings up...did any of these fools bother to ask some of our larger employers...our auto manufacturers like Volkswagon and Nissan, whether or not they were OK with it? Volkswagon is new here, and could potentially expand. Nissan has been very, very kind to this state...they have far too much invested to just pack up and leave...but could this sort of thing hurt future relations?

The state has to be careful when dealing with interest groups (NRA, in this case), because they don't necessarily represent the interest of a majority of Tennesseans.
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Old 02-13-2013, 01:19 PM
 
Location: Somewhere below Mason/Dixon
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I am going to address the guns in parking lots issue. All big corporations have regulations forbidding guns on thier property. Gun control has no better tool than that of corporations who submit to the will of liberal special interest groups who threaten legal action or boycotts against them. I understand why, business does not make money when facing off against these interest groups. Boycotts and legal action cost them too much, and mainstream Americans who support gun ownership or any kind of traditional values are too busy working to protest or take action against them for the perceived left lean regaurding thier policies. It is not guns only, most corprations have prograns or policies that favor liberal interest like minority groups or homosexual advocate groups as well for the same reason. This law regaurding protection of gun owners while in the parking lot of these businesses is an attack on this tactic the left has used for decades. It frees the corporation from having to bow to the gun controll interest groups and absoves them of responsibility for making this decision. Liberals are perfectly fine with telling a business wether or not people can smoke in a bar or restauraunt, but now they are property rights advocates?? Really? If this is passed no longer will a gun owner fear parking in the Wal-mart parking lot, or fear losing thier job at work because of corporate policies which are in place only because corporate America fears left wing interest groups and the damage they can do to profits.
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Old 02-13-2013, 01:36 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielj72 View Post
I am going to address the guns in parking lots issue. All big corporations have regulations forbidding guns on thier property. Gun control has no better tool than that of corporations who submit to the will of liberal special interest groups who threaten legal action or boycotts against them. I understand why, business does not make money when facing off against these interest groups. Boycotts and legal action cost them too much, and mainstream Americans who support gun ownership or any kind of traditional values are too busy working to protest or take action against them for the perceived left lean regaurding thier policies. It is not guns only, most corprations have prograns or policies that favor liberal interest like minority groups or homosexual advocate groups as well for the same reason. This law regaurding protection of gun owners while in the parking lot of these businesses is an attack on this tactic the left has used for decades. It frees the corporation from having to bow to the gun controll interest groups and absoves them of responsibility for making this decision. Liberals are perfectly fine with telling a business wether or not people can smoke in a bar or restauraunt, but now they are property rights advocates?? Really? If this is passed no longer will a gun owner fear parking in the Wal-mart parking lot, or fear losing thier job at work because of corporate policies which are in place only because corporate America fears left wing interest groups and the damage they can do to profits.
That's great and all, but this doesn't just affect corporations, but small businesses, too.
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Old 02-13-2013, 02:04 PM
 
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Originally Posted by nashvols View Post
That's great and all, but this doesn't just affect corporations, but small businesses, too.

Your right it does, but does a business or anyone else have the right to restrict the bill of rights?? Does a business have the right to restrict your freedom of speech?? NO, it does not. They should also not have the right to restrict your 2nd amendment freedoms either. The right to keep and bear arms should not be restricted because you stopped by Wal-mart to pick up some groceries. I understand a business not wanting guns inside thier business, but restricting guns in parking lots really is a ban on legally transporting weapons. It means unless you are going to and from a gun range, or a hunting area you cannot legally possess a gun. Almost EVERY major corporation bans them on thier property, so it has become a tool to stop people from carrying guns. I completely support a law that protects gun owners from these policies. We cannot keep surrendering freedoms everytime bad things happen. Think about the recent past, Oklahoma city bombing-more gun laws. Columbine brought us zero tolerance weapon policies in schools causing children with plastic toy guns to be expelled. Sept 11 attacks lead to our not being able to cross the Canadian/Mexican border without tons of documentation we did not used to need, no fly lists, wire tapping. Now we have this Newtown CT massacre and again we are going to surrender our freedoms in the name of our saftey. I am glad the state is going to stand up against this trend, If the federal goverment wants to continue down that path there is little we can do about it. The US goverment is controlled by the big liberal states in the northeast and west coast. Its time we assert another one of the amendments in the bill of rights, the 10th. I am glad our state is doing that.
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Old 02-13-2013, 02:12 PM
 
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Originally Posted by danielj72 View Post
Your right it does, but does a business or anyone else have the right to restrict the bill of rights?? Does a business have the right to restrict your freedom of speech?? NO, it does not. They should also not have the right to restrict your 2nd amendment freedoms either. The right to keep and bear arms should not be restricted because you stopped by Wal-mart to pick up some groceries. I understand a business not wanting guns inside thier business, but restricting guns in parking lots really is a ban on legally transporting weapons. It means unless you are going to and from a gun range, or a hunting area you cannot legally possess a gun. Almost EVERY major corporation bans them on thier property, so it has become a tool to stop people from carrying guns. I completely support a law that protects gun owners from these policies. We cannot keep surrendering freedoms everytime bad things happen. Think about the recent past, Oklahoma city bombing-more gun laws. Columbine brought us zero tolerance weapon policies in schools causing children with plastic toy guns to be expelled. Sept 11 attacks lead to our not being able to cross the Canadian/Mexican border without tons of documentation we did not used to need, no fly lists, wire tapping. Now we have this Newtown CT massacre and again we are going to surrender our freedoms in the name of our saftey. I am glad the state is going to stand up against this trend, If the federal goverment wants to continue down that path there is little we can do about it. The US goverment is controlled by the big liberal states in the northeast and west coast. Its time we assert another one of the amendments in the bill of rights, the 10th. I am glad our state is doing that.

but what about my property rights to not have guns on my property. As a property owner I have a 5th amendment right.

The Luby masacre back in the 1980s there were plenty of guns in the parking lot, that didn't stop the rampage.

I just think there are much more important issues for our legislature to address than whether the NRA should write legislation.

The things I wish the state would focus on all cost money, but would also create jobs like improving/stopping the deferred maintenance of our state parks, improving infrastructure (roads-bridges, etc).
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Old 02-13-2013, 02:22 PM
 
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Originally Posted by danielj72 View Post
Your right it does, but does a business or anyone else have the right to restrict the bill of rights??
The BoR says you have the right to bear arms. It does not specify that you have the right to bear arms anywhere you go.

It is private property. It should be up to the property owner whether or not guns are allowed on the premises. If you do not like the fact that you cannot take your firearm to certain places of business or to work, you are well within your rights not to patronize those businesses and/or not choose to be employed at a certain business.

Personally, I don't think it is a bad idea to allow guns in parking lots (depending on the type of business). But ultimately it should be up to the owner.
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Old 02-13-2013, 02:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by septimus View Post
The things I wish the state would focus on all cost money, but would also create jobs like improving/stopping the deferred maintenance of our state parks, improving infrastructure (roads-bridges, etc).
This this this. The guns, God, and gays really aren't pressing issues for me right now...so I don't really understand why our legislature is making them such.

Drop the effing social politics until we fix the economic issues. That goes both for local and national politicians.



Also, infrastructure is a big need. Improving roads, bridges, and even rail lines should be higher on the state's priority list, since that has both economic and safety value.

Parks/conservation should be higher on the list, too.
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Old 02-13-2013, 02:52 PM
 
Location: Somewhere below Mason/Dixon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nashvols View Post
This this this. The guns, God, and gays really aren't pressing issues for me right now...so I don't really understand why our legislature is making them such.

Drop the effing social politics until we fix the economic issues. That goes both for local and national politicians.



Also, infrastructure is a big need. Improving roads, bridges, and even rail lines should be higher on the state's priority list, since that has both economic and safety value.

Parks/conservation should be higher on the list, too.

Those folks in Nashville are there because the citizens of Tennessee are typically conservatives who are religious, conservative and own firearms. I am sure that it would be frustrating to have a liberal worldview living here in Tennessee. It is the same frustration that conservatives feel if they live in a state like Massachusets. I understand that most liberals are well intended, and in fact we all want the same thing. Prosperity, fair goverment and freedom are the stated goals for both conservative and liberal alike. Our real disagreement is how to reach thier goals. I respectfully disagree with the left wing approach of larger goverment and restrictions upon our freedom for saftey and protection. Corporate policies about guns in the parking lot have become a tool anti-gun forces use to restrict our rights. Since parking lots are also public spaces, they in my opinion are a bit different than truly private property. It is not like its someones house, they are easily accessable from any road and could easily be entered accidently or without knowledge of the company who owns the lots policies on guns. It is not reasonable to restrict guns from places like that, and in effect is a de-facto ban on carrying your weapon in your car. This is a violation of our rights IMO.
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