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Old 02-01-2008, 03:28 PM
 
Location: East Tennessee
59 posts, read 128,123 times
Reputation: 17

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Quote:
Originally Posted by WOWAddict View Post
I can see what angers you about the whole issue but I just dont see why your upset by companies, communities doing what is best in their best interest just like you would. Taxes breaks or increases are how governments do business.
Because companies have learned how to rip off the taxpayers by threatening to move if they have to pay their fair share of the taxes. Look at what Bridgestone is really doing. They are using their employment base to force one state to give them a tax break or lose the jobs to another. They don't want to pay the same taxes as other businesses, they are demanding to pay less. Someone has to make up the difference, and it will be the ordinary taxpayers, either in the form of higher taxes or lower services. Not only that, but they want free land. Did anyone give you free land to move here?

These tactics set one community against another. Our politicians need to have the common sense to stand up to this stuff and not grovel at the companies' feet simply because they are a large employer.

That is why I said I want to see a federal law stopping this nonsense. Then companies would have to rely on ordinary market decisions and the general taxation structure that everyone else has to deal with. Anything else is corporate welfare. In this particular case, it is extorted corporate welfare.
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Old 02-01-2008, 04:13 PM
 
9,088 posts, read 21,727,571 times
Reputation: 5891
Quote:
Originally Posted by SandyOne View Post
Frankly, this is disgusting. Bridgestone is trying to extort Ohio into giving them tax concessions by playing that state against Tennessee. If Ohio won't play, Tennesseans get to subsidize Bridgestone. No matter what happens, we the taxpayers lose.

I am sick of these corporations getting a free ride by threatening to move jobs to another state. There needs to be a federal law banning this sort of behavior.

We happen to need new tires for one of our vehicles. Now that I have seen this, I can guarantee we won't be buying any Bridgestones.
I have to admit that part of me agrees with this sentiment. It makes me angry when companies pit one state or town against another in order to get lucrative tax breaks. It turned my stomach to see Toyota do it when it was courting Arkansas and Tennessee and ended up going to Mississippi--and Mississippi gave Toyota around $300,000 PER JOB to locate there. It's almost like bribery. Remember a few years ago when the Olympics bribery scandal broke, when it was revealed how much Salt Lake City gave to IOC officials and friends in order to get the winter games? People were outraged even though that kind of chicanery had been going on for years. (side note: Mitt Romney is the one who came in and saved the SLC Olympics from financial ruin.)

But on the other hand, we DO live in a free market society (well, relatively free) where states and cities are allowed to have different tax structures and are allowed to compete against each other for jobs. If Ohio ends up giving Bridgestone millions of dollars to stay in Akron, then it's Ohio's fault, not Bridgestone's. After all, Bridgestone is a public company which has to answer to thousands of stockholders and not just to Akron city officials.

Cities routinely give tax breaks to individuals based on the needs of the city. In Knoxville, for example, there are all kinds of tax breaks and cash incentives to encourage people to live in certain neighborhoods, buy certain homes, open certain kinds of businesses.

We as individuals are allowed the freedom to decide where we live and do business based on what's in our best interest (financial or otherwise), and businesses, large or small, should be allowed to do the same.
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Old 02-01-2008, 04:26 PM
 
12,544 posts, read 18,443,184 times
Reputation: 13591
I also look at side and downstream. So, after the business moves to TN and decides in a few years that they can get an even better deal in some other country and closes its doors here...........bam. Yep, we taxpayers are really left holding the bag then when our citizens are left without jobs, healthcare and have mortgages that foreclose and all that goes with that. Associated business providers that served the business and the workers also suffer. Yep, it's free enterprise and I am a proud, flag waving American. But, Sandy has a point, along with everyone else. While we don't want a Big Brother I do hope that someone (meant collectively as a we), is watching the store!
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Old 02-01-2008, 05:09 PM
 
Location: The land of erternal summer to Murfreesboro, TN
1,110 posts, read 1,943,028 times
Reputation: 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokyMtnGal View Post
I also look at side and downstream. So, after the business moves to TN and decides in a few years that they can get an even better deal in some other country and closes its doors here...........bam. Yep, we taxpayers are really left holding the bag then when our citizens are left without jobs, healthcare and have mortgages that foreclose and all that goes with that. Associated business providers that served the business and the workers also suffer. Yep, it's free enterprise and I am a proud, flag waving American. But, Sandy has a point, along with everyone else. While we don't want a Big Brother I do hope that someone (meant collectively as a we), is watching the store!
Good point! I may be ignorant when it comes to certain aspects of this, but don't most large business's usually relocate when the cost of doing business in a certain place becomes to high for them and their profits get smaller. I know in Florida their were relocations due to operating costs. In California as well. I know Florida was pitching a California based bio-tech company to relocate there. Am I wrong on this?
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Old 02-01-2008, 09:51 PM
 
Location: Lake Worth, Fl
364 posts, read 721,310 times
Reputation: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by SandyOne View Post
Because companies have learned how to rip off the taxpayers by threatening to move if they have to pay their fair share of the taxes. Look at what Bridgestone is really doing. They are using their employment base to force one state to give them a tax break or lose the jobs to another. They don't want to pay the same taxes as other businesses, they are demanding to pay less. Someone has to make up the difference, and it will be the ordinary taxpayers, either in the form of higher taxes or lower services. Not only that, but they want free land. Did anyone give you free land to move here?

These tactics set one community against another. Our politicians need to have the common sense to stand up to this stuff and not grovel at the companies' feet simply because they are a large employer.

That is why I said I want to see a federal law stopping this nonsense. Then companies would have to rely on ordinary market decisions and the general taxation structure that everyone else has to deal with. Anything else is corporate welfare. In this particular case, it is extorted corporate welfare.
This is a free market! I know it sucks and it is unfair but thats life. You cant regulate this so it is fair. If it gets regulated you know where those jobs end up China . They still will probably end up there eventually but at least it keeps Americans employed for now.

Instead of taking the narrow view of it is an evil company getting free land and pillaging our money. Look at the broad view. New Jobs in the community pouring more money into the community. Then that does not take into account all the secondary jobs that are created. 600 people, a big portion of them will be new to the community, have to live, eat, shop, etc. Every business around the plant will benefit.

I also would rather have my local politicians doing everything they can to get jobs in my area then come up with legislation that would only work in a perfect world.
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Old 02-01-2008, 10:02 PM
 
Location: Lake Worth, Fl
364 posts, read 721,310 times
Reputation: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokyMtnGal View Post
I also look at side and downstream. So, after the business moves to TN and decides in a few years that they can get an even better deal in some other country and closes its doors here...........bam. Yep, we taxpayers are really left holding the bag then when our citizens are left without jobs, healthcare and have mortgages that foreclose and all that goes with that. Associated business providers that served the business and the workers also suffer. Yep, it's free enterprise and I am a proud, flag waving American. But, Sandy has a point, along with everyone else. While we don't want a Big Brother I do hope that someone (meant collectively as a we), is watching the store!
She is right and I see the reason for the anger but this is the system we have and I personally like it better than a heavy regulated system.

Sure in a few years the company can move again or go out of business. But that is not something you do anything about. You can only prepare now the best you can.

Regulation would be horrible. Say Bridgestone moves to TN and the regulation is banning tax breaks or communities "competing" is in place. Now 5 years down the line Bridgestone encounters money troubles and they go to China or out of business.

600 people out of work. What now? You have no incentives to get a company to move to TN to fill that void.

I really do think it is unfair and it does make me sick if I just look at what the company is getting.

Maybe I am just too much of an optimist
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Old 02-02-2008, 09:00 AM
 
Location: East Tennessee
59 posts, read 128,123 times
Reputation: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by WOWAddict View Post
This is a free market! I know it sucks and it is unfair but thats life. You cant regulate this so it is fair. If it gets regulated you know where those jobs end up China . They still will probably end up there eventually but at least it keeps Americans employed for now.

Instead of taking the narrow view of it is an evil company getting free land and pillaging our money. Look at the broad view. New Jobs in the community pouring more money into the community. Then that does not take into account all the secondary jobs that are created. 600 people, a big portion of them will be new to the community, have to live, eat, shop, etc. Every business around the plant will benefit.

I also would rather have my local politicians doing everything they can to get jobs in my area then come up with legislation that would only work in a perfect world.
New jobs here. 600 direct jobs lost in Ohio, plus the loss of the secondary jobs. I don't see any net gain for the US as a whole. All I see is a net gain for Bridgestone, a Japanese company, who is playing one state against another. While they are doing this, they are certainly disrupting the lives of thousands of people in Ohio, who will now have to wonder if their livelihoods will be gone or their families torn apart by a greedy foreign corporation.

Following your logic to its inevitable conclusion, we should give all employing businesses free land and no taxes in order to compete with China. Who do you expect to make up the difference? It will be the same people who are employed by the likes of Bridgestone. We may have jobs, but we will be little more than highly taxed labor slaves to foreign corporations who end up paying no taxes.

What Bridgestone is doing may not be illegal at the moment, but it is certainly evil and something that can legitimately be stopped with federal law.
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Old 02-02-2008, 09:40 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
22,989 posts, read 17,958,677 times
Reputation: 32528
What makes you think some of those people trying to get out of Ohio won't move with the jobs?
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Old 02-02-2008, 09:57 AM
 
Location: The land of erternal summer to Murfreesboro, TN
1,110 posts, read 1,943,028 times
Reputation: 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC View Post
What makes you think some of those people trying to get out of Ohio won't move with the jobs?
Most companies always take a certain amount of people with them. Usually as part of the contract is a promise of a certain number of local positions that will be made available as well.
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Old 02-02-2008, 10:07 AM
 
Location: East Tennessee
59 posts, read 128,123 times
Reputation: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC View Post
What makes you think some of those people trying to get out of Ohio won't move with the jobs?

Some will move, some won't. Some won't want to move for their own reasons. Some will. Some will not be able to move because of family situations. Bridgestone will probably pay the move for senior employees that they can't afford to lose, but not for the rest, who will be forced to pay the expenses of moving, which are substantial when selling a house is involved.

Of course, once the move is announced, it will depress the local housing market and the Bridgestone employees will not be able to get decent prices for their houses.

And why should we taxpayers subsidize any of this? Don't forget, in this case it is the taxpayers of Tennessee helping a foreign corporation to hurt the taxpayers of Ohio, but as long as this kind of behavior is legal, there is nothing to stop the taxpayers of another state from doing the same thing to Tennessee.
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