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Old 04-25-2008, 06:48 AM
Unci
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Beautiful East Tennessee
298 posts, read 495,699 times
Reputation: 266
I would bet that people will get tired of hearing about all of this very soon. If so, just don’t click on this thread for updates, because I cannot stop talking about it.

This morning Amanda and I went to Lowe’s and made our first big wood purchase. We did this at Lowe’s because we had a card with the exact limit of what was needed, with no interest or payments for a year. So we got 85 2x6x14’s and 30 pieces of 4x8 subflooring plywood. We have all we need for the floor now and it should be delivered either today or first thing in the morning. YAY! We can start building a floor this weekend!!!!! I was able to sweet talk to super nice guy at Lowe’s and got a discount on each board. I saved over $25 on the lumber and got another $25 off for a card I had so the total was $1,335.00 including delivery. Nails bought yesterday were $54. Also, Jimmy has 30 2x4’s he is going to give us for the walls, so I will not have to buy that many. I will still have to buy the plywood for the walls and all but we can handle that. Before you know it, we will be talking about getting the money together for the roof.

On top of all that, I also have all the concrete blocks for the floor of the root cellar and a lot of the ones I need for the walls of the root cellar as well. The guy who has some cows in the field are picking them up in the morning and I will start moving some of my favorite plants tomorrow as well. (*note to self: get plenty of sleep tonight)

AND….Chris is helping someone haul a LOT of cedar boards today that will be used for the closet and doors. We are also being given some walnut to use as needed for whatever we choose to use it for. The outhouse will be done in the next week, hopefully most of the floor and things are looking great! I cannot wait to get started on the house building. Wish you could all be here to help!!!!!
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Old 04-25-2008, 07:23 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Knoxville,Tn.
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Forest Breath,
After reading your newest update, you tired me out with all your activity. Sounds like things are really starting to move along. I can feel your excitement. Looking forward to your next update, have a great and productive weekend.
Pam
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Old 04-25-2008, 09:09 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Clearwater, Florida, soon to be Tn
112 posts, read 142,503 times
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Can't imagine anyone tiring of the updates.

I'm gonna take a nap....you got lots to do tomorrow!
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Old 04-25-2008, 10:36 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Chattanooga TN
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Forest, we'll never grow weary hearing about your efforts however you ARE making me physically tired. It's quite amazing how fast this is coming together

Another thing, I see that there may be a Habitat for Humanity near you. Our local Habitat has a resale store which is where we purchase things like paint ($2-5 gallon) and shingles ($5 bundle) . They also have just about anything you can imagine from light fixtures to stoves too. I wonder if your area has this resale store as well. Just a thought!
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Old 04-26-2008, 07:29 PM
Unci
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Beautiful East Tennessee
298 posts, read 495,699 times
Reputation: 266
This morning at 7am our home looked like this:



Shortly afterwards, our very first load of wood got delivered. I was a little worried because we were expecting some bad rain storms. If those had arrived before the wood, it would have been almost impossible for that truck to make it over the culverts to the home site. Luckily the weather was on our side and the wood was delivered safely.

We started working right away, as the generator and air compressor was suppose to arrive at about 10am. Jimmy nailed the very first nail into the wood, as it should be. He certainly was a great supervisor throughout the day and there is no way we could have got that floor started without him as we are clueless about building homes. LOL



After that first few nails, I made Jimmy sit down and supervise from a lawn chair. That was more difficult than all the nailing we had to do, because he was just so excited he wanted to be right there hand on with everything we were doing. Needless to say, something HAD to go wrong and it did. The person I was getting the generator and compressor from is your normal non trustworthy individual and we were not even able to reach him by phone until after 2:30pm. By this time we had a lot of the floor nailed by hand. When we realized there was going to be no generator and compressor today, we grabbed our hammers and made the best of it. We worked almost non stop until 8pm. I made Jimmy go take naps and then home to rest as we finished up. We almost have the joists ready for the subfloor. I spent a little extra on it to get the kind that has a 50 year warranty. It will be worth it in the long run.

So, after 11 hours of hard work and nailing so many nails we lost count after hundreds….we were able to stand back and look proudly on the job done today! We only like a few more of the stabilizer pieces tomorrow and then Monday I will be RENTING a generator for awhile. We will then be able to nail the plywood with an air gun and maybe our blisters will heal a little. LOL

After all was said and done…. I think it is safe to say we can be proud of what we accomplished today! I think we may indeed have a house by June!

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Old 04-26-2008, 08:31 PM
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Location: Knoxville,Tn.
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Hooray Forest Breath! How exciting! Everything is looking good. Looking forward to the next update.
Pam
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Old 04-27-2008, 06:05 AM
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You all are really moving right along! Enjoying the updates.
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Old 04-27-2008, 10:24 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
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OMG! STOP RIGHT NOW!!!

I may sound like I'm raining on your parade, but you have made CRITICAL mistakes. If you build a house on this it WILL fall down.

Your flooring joists and what you have as subjoists are WAY too small for the spans. There is simply not enough strength in that floor to survive any serious load.

The first error is the worst. A single 2 x 6, even with a ledger board underneath it WILL NOT SUPPORT joists over a 12' or longer span. Even a steel I-beam would have a larger web for this purpose. Once there is any significant load on the floor those 2 x 6s will bend and then fail at a knot near the center. The ledger board, if it is just nailed on, adds NO strength.

The second error is the butting of the ends of the joists over the center subjoist. As the wood changes dimensionally with heat, cold, damp, dry, and natural warping, the joist end will come off the support of the subjoist. Joist ends are lapped and extended at least the thickness of the wood over the other side of a beam to prevent this.

The third error is that your unsupported span length of the 2 x 6 joists are way too long, even at 12" OC.

If you had a celebratory party with a dance, your guests would be bouncing and if you had more than a few, the floor could fail under them. Anything heavier than lightweight patio furniture would be a problem.

The fourth error is that there is no bracing or headers on your joists to keep them from twisting out of shape. They will. Wood does that.

A fifth error that I can't see but am almost sure was made is that there is no pinning of the floor to the foundation, or at least wind strapping. Without this, in even a strong storm, a house can be pushed off its blocks and crash to the ground.

There are other technical errors, but all of the above must be addressed. Sorry.

You might have seen floor framing in the past that looked like this in older camps and homes, but the wood in those was likely oak or other dense hardwood, and still had problems. Common dimensional lumber isn't nearly as strong.

I hate to say it, but the best course of action is to take the floor deck down and start over. The good part is that you should be able to re-use most of the materials, so you've only lost time and the cost of some nails.

Here is a link that details the proper selection of wood, span lengths, etc. The reading gets pretty dense, so you might get stuck once or twice in reading it, and the temptation will be to dismiss it with "we don't have a building code here." Don't fall into that trap. The laws of physics still apply. AFTER you've read through it at least once, read the rest of my post.

Understanding Loads and Using Span Tables - Publications - BM&WT - UMass Amherst



OK, that was the course on how and why, and the over-engineering designed to satisfy insurance companies and zoning boards. If you don't plan to insure the house, you can do some cutting of specifications and still have the home quite reasonably sound.

First - Put in more foundation piers. My guess is that the existing ones are about 12' O.C. If you want 2 x 6 joists, you'll need to have the piers 6' O.C., even if you step up to doubled 2 x 8 subjoists making a beam.

The Xs are your existing piers, the o's are the new ones. The dashes are where the beams go.

X-o-X-o-X
o-o-o-o-o
X-o-X-o-X
o-o-o-o-o
X-o-X-o-X

If you want fewer piers, you can use doubled 2 x 12s as the beams and this configuration, you'll save making another 10 piers:

X---X---X
o---o---o
X---X---X
o---o---o
X---X---X

You can use pressure treated 2 x 6s bolted and glued together into a 6" x 6" pier, resting in a hole filled with concrete mix, one big bag of quickcrete per hole. If the piers extend more that a couple feet out of the ground, they may need bracing. Accuracy of the tops is critical.

Your beams ( you'll need five of them 24' long) can be 2 screwed (use deck screws) and glued 2 x 8s or 2 x 12s, depending on how many piers you put in. In this case, the joints are staggered. Say you use 12' long 2 x 8s. You'll cut one to two pieces of 6' length. Place one 6' section and one 12' section together, so the ends of both are on the outside of the house footprint, and the other end are resting on piers. Screw and glue (construction adhesive in the caulking gun) them together and then add a 12' section to the butt end of the 6' section, and another 12' section to the other side. the joined boards will look like this from the top, with dashes representing the boards, and I's the joints;

------I------------I------
-------------I------------

The beams then have to be attached to the piers. You can use metal strapping, you can add cripples to the outside of the piers, but the beams have to be locked into place.

Now make sure the beams are properly spaced and parallel. It makes the following steps easier.

Next, your 2 x 6 joists go on top. Take one 2 x 6 and place it along the top outside of the outside beam. This becomes your header. Your joist ends are nailed into it. With the shorter spans, the joists only need to go every 16 inches OC, instead of 12" OC. starting from one beam, completely crossing another beam, and ending just past the center beam. That'll save you a little wood for later. Do the same thing on the other side, but offset by 1.5" to allow the joists to pass in the center and be nailed together. Note that by having the beam doubled and joists nailed to the header, the outside ends of the joists are protected from weather and bugs, supported by the interior 2x in the beam, and part of the load is transfered to the other outside 2x in the beam by the DECK SCREWS and glue, as well as the header, which is nailed to the ends of the joists.

When you get done, you will have a box which makes up your joists and headers. You now do the final truing it up to square, and attach the joists to the beams with straps (look in the cement area of Lowes for some cheap straps that come in quantities of 100), and then finally you will add bracing between the joists at least at the top of each interior beam.

I have to repeat - as the photo shows it, your beams are far too weak and spans are far too long for this to work. Get other advice if you don't believe me, but get it from an experienced outside builder instead of a friend who might not want to upset you.
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Old 04-27-2008, 11:11 AM
Unci
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Beautiful East Tennessee
298 posts, read 495,699 times
Reputation: 266
I don't understand that because Jimmy built his workshop EXACTLY like we are building the house, floor and all and he did it with the exact same wood and it is the exact size. He did this about 14+ years ago and it is full of heavy wood working equipment, full freezers and cabinets made of Oak and Cedar. It is very sturdy and he has never had a problem, even when 6 men have been in there running all the saw and carrying lumber in and out. They even stacked about 30 4x4x12 cedar pieces in there for an entire winter.

I am certanily worried now, but confused as well. I will call someone to come take a look at it.
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Old 04-27-2008, 11:43 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
4,444 posts, read 4,146,696 times
Reputation: 3588

Please do that. I've also put a post in the House forum to try to draw some other folks here. I stand by what I have described. If his workshop hasn't failed, about the only reasons I can think of are luck, and the possibility that the walls are attached in a way that they are acting like trusses.
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