Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I think the comment on nearly free college tuition is a bit misleading. Your talking about schlorships which must be applied for and requirements met like any other schlorship. These are available in about any state. It looks to me like what was just called student aid and is basically based on income. We employ many part time students from TTU and none of them receive any free tuition.
I believe lack of funds was not the deal with Crossville schools (my grandsons go there). From what I readt the school system was wanting about 3K more than what was budgeted and claimed they could not make payroll. I believe it was a scare tactic.
I went to Monterey High School. It sucked. Of course that has been some years ago, but things havent changed much except for the influx of non english speaking students.
I love the idea of using lottery funds to help with student's college tuition. There are so many bright kids who would like to attend college, but whose families just cannot afford to send them.
This type of program is used here in GA, also. Requiring a student to maintain a 3.0 average to qualify is often just the incentive that an under achieving student needs to really hit the books.
I do wish they would change the system, however, to allow those C+ students some advantage, as well. They are many young folks who must work after school and on weekends just to take care of their own living expenses because Mom and Dad can't or won't once they reach an age that they can hold down a parttime job. It's pretty tough for even an above average student to maintain a 3.0 throughout his high school years when working.
I would like to see a partial tuition break, at least, for those kids who are maintaining a 2.5 to 3.0 average under tough circumstances. I know that this would require more paperwork, more scrutiny, etc., but all who want a higher education should be given a leg up to some extent to help make it happen.
Stop skimming the top extra layers off of those lottery ticket sales and it could happen.
I love the idea of using lottery funds to help with student's college tuition. There are so many bright kids who would like to attend college, but whose families just cannot afford to send them.
This type of program is used here in GA, also. Requiring a student to maintain a 3.0 average to qualify is often just the incentive that an under achieving student needs to really hit the books.
I do wish they would change the system, however, to allow those C+ students some advantage, as well. They are many young folks who must work after school and on weekends just to take care of their own living expenses because Mom and Dad can't or won't once they reach an age that they can hold down a parttime job. It's pretty tough for even an above average student to maintain a 3.0 throughout his high school years when working.
I would like to see a partial tuition break, at least, for those kids who are maintaining a 2.5 to 3.0 average under tough circumstances. I know that this would require more paperwork, more scrutiny, etc., but all who want a higher education should be given a leg up to some extent to help make it happen.
Stop skimming the top extra layers off of those lottery ticket sales and it could happen.
You're so right. In fact, last year the Tennessee Lottery people had a surplus of money because there weren't enough students who qualified for the free cash. I believe that's when they decided to send some money to help the state's Pre-K program. I think.
As for 2mares's comment that the lottery scholarship is no different than any other financial aid, that's partially true. The difference is that the lottery scholarship is open to any student no matter the student's financial background. Wealthy college students are able to receive just as much money as poor college students. Some people don't particularly care for that since they say it essentially means that poor Tennesseans (those who typically buy lottery tickets) are subsidizing the tuition of wealthy students.
I don't know of any academic scholarship that requires merely a B average. So in that sense, the lottery scholarship is much more than a simple academic scholarship.
At any rate, I don't mind if the lottery scholarship is restricted only to those who maintain a B average. I don't really believe in rewarding mediocrity, and to me it seems that giving cash to those who maintain anything lower than a B is rewarding mediocrity. But on the other hand, if the state continues to have a surplus in its lottery coffers, it might as well start giving the money to others. Actually, I would prefer that they give money to non-traditional students who currently are not allowed any money from the lottery scholarship. I'm referring to students who graduated from HS before 2003, or whatever the cut-off year is for the lottery scholarship.
One thing's for sure, places like Tennessee Tech in Cookeville, ETSU in Johnson City and U.T. in Knoxville have definitely benefitted from the lottery scholarship. TTU and ETSU are seeing record enrollments, and U.T. is now seeing incoming classes that have SAT scores almost as high as Vanderbilt's.
You're so right. In fact, last year the Tennessee Lottery people had a surplus of money because there weren't enough students who qualified for the free cash. I believe that's when they decided to send some money to help the state's Pre-K program. I think.
As for 2mares's comment that the lottery scholarship is no different than any other financial aid, that's partially true. The difference is that the lottery scholarship is open to any student no matter the student's financial background. Wealthy college students are able to receive just as much money as poor college students. Some people don't particularly care for that since they say it essentially means that poor Tennesseans (those who typically buy lottery tickets) are subsidizing the tuition of wealthy students.
I don't know of any academic scholarship that requires merely a B average. So in that sense, the lottery scholarship is much more than a simple academic scholarship.
At any rate, I don't mind if the lottery scholarship is restricted only to those who maintain a B average. I don't really believe in rewarding mediocrity, and to me it seems that giving cash to those who maintain anything lower than a B is rewarding mediocrity. But on the other hand, if the state continues to have a surplus in its lottery coffers, it might as well start giving the money to others. Actually, I would prefer that they give money to non-traditional students who currently are not allowed any money from the lottery scholarship. I'm referring to students who graduated from HS before 2003, or whatever the cut-off year is for the lottery scholarship.
One thing's for sure, places like Tennessee Tech in Cookeville, ETSU in Johnson City and U.T. in Knoxville have definitely benefitted from the lottery scholarship. TTU and ETSU are seeing record enrollments, and U.T. is now seeing incoming classes that have SAT scores almost as high as Vanderbilt's.
JMT, I would never condone rewarding mediocrity either. But, the fact remains that there are many economically deprived teens who want desparately to attend college and pursue their dreams, but are thwarted in one way or another.
Of these students, many are very bright, very determined, and capable of a 4.0 average, but are spending more hours working parttime jobs than they are going to school. These are the "lost in the cracks" kids who in spite of the best efforts cannot come in with that 3.0 every grading period.
This does not indicate mediocrity to me. It defines character, determination, and a can-do attitude. Yet, those students are over-looked for the lottery aid for education because they cannot stay awake 25-7 to accomplish work, school, studying, etc.
The schools know who these students are. One of them was me! I worked 2 parttime jobs in high school, and 3 at a time going through college. It was a tremendous struggle to keep my grades up and put in 8 hours a day working. My family thought that girls did not belong in college. They should raise families, work as secretaries or beauticians. There is nothing wrong with any of these pursuits, but I had other plans for myself and the only way it could happen was if I paid for it myself. I did.
These students are just as deserving of a college education as those whose parents support their goals 100% and don't want their children to work while going to school. What a gift to those kids. How about those who have no choice? What do we do about those who would be first-rate doctors, teachers, mayors?
Many of these students who miss out are not mediocre, just over-burdened.
I do agree that young people who graduated before the system became active should also be given the same consideration. It can become a real snarl, I'm sure, to start evaluating past students, students who are close to the requirements, etc. I just feel that there is so much more good that could be done for those seeking higher education.
you both have great ideas. I was a nontraditional student that worked 2-3 jobs at a time to get thru college while raising two sons. I did receive student aid which paid tuition, but I still had to buy books and pay rent and eat. There does need to be money available to those that arent eligible for scholarships for outstanding grades and achievements or that fall thru the cracks economically. Keep in mid too that mediocre grades is not alway a reflection of intelligence or character. So a C student may be someone who has way more on their plate or just not a good test taker.
I went to TTU with a fellow who nearly flunked out of highschool, barley made the grades to gratuate TTU with a BS in Biology. He went on to get into John-Hopkins University and last I heard was working at the mayo clinic in Arizona as a ultra-sound tech.
As I posted before, I don't like the govt having too much control over anything. Even though this a discusion about the lottery the TN govt is deciding how to spend the money. I know we aren't going to solve this issue by posting thoughts in this forum. However, my opinion is when decisions are being made as to how tax dollars are spent everyone has the perfect plan (In his/her opinion). This issue can be simplified by returning more of the tax to the people. Let each individual decide how to take care of themselves. Each time the govt decides how to spend our money they help out some and leave others behind.
I think there will always be one or three or more students who will feel left out of the parameters when it comes to lottery funds or any other incentive offered, but that goes with anything. I know it is not the way they are taught in any school in the USA anymore, but sorry, not everyone is a winner, there is effort required in the big bad world to make it. Not everyone gets a prize for participating.
I do have to give credit to TN when it comes to the allocation of lottery funds in one respect especially. The addition of Lottery funds to education did not take away from state funding of schools. This happened in FL and they are paying the price in quality of education now. When FL got the lottery and it was touted that 50% of lottery funds would go to schools, the state took most of their funding away saying there was plenty of money from the lottery, well that wasn't the case. So I am glad that the added lottery funds in TN is actually going where they said it would go, to students who work hard in school to EARN those funds to further their education no matter their parents financial status. I tell my now high school age son that when his grades start slipping, that "you are throwing five thousand dollars out the window if you don't put that extra effort in that you need to to pull that grade up a bit." He understand money and that incentive works.
I think there will always be one or three or more students who will feel left out of the parameters when it comes to lottery funds or any other incentive offered, but that goes with anything. I know it is not the way they are taught in any school in the USA anymore, but sorry, not everyone is a winner, there is effort required in the big bad world to make it. Not everyone gets a prize for participating.
I do have to give credit to TN when it comes to the allocation of lottery funds in one respect especially. The addition of Lottery funds to education did not take away from state funding of schools. This happened in FL and they are paying the price in quality of education now. When FL got the lottery and it was touted that 50% of lottery funds would go to schools, the state took most of their funding away saying there was plenty of money from the lottery, well that wasn't the case. So I am glad that the added lottery funds in TN is actually going where they said it would go, to students who work hard in school to EARN those funds to further their education no matter their parents financial status. I tell my now high school age son that when his grades start slipping, that "you are throwing five thousand dollars out the window if you don't put that extra effort in that you need to to pull that grade up a bit." He understand money and that incentive works.
My gosh mbmouse, you always have a way of saying what I want to say before I even know it.
I agree that there needs to be a standard in order to receive free money. I have no problem with making B the minimum standard. Since a C is categorized as "average" in the grading scale, I think someone should do better than average in order to receive free cash from the state.
Gem, I have no doubt that you worked hard in college, and I know there are others who do so. I am always amazed at some of my non-traditional students who have more on their plate than just school and homework. I don't know if I would have the gumption to do what they do.
Nonetheless, they know the deal. If they want free lottery money for their education, they have to maintain a B average. No questions asked. I don't think that's being unfair, either. No one is required to go to college, and no one is required to receive free money, either. I know of students who qualify for the lottery money but refuse to accept it on principal.
At any rate, gemthornton is a good example of someone who didn't get a free handout in college but still managed to become successful in life. My hats off to you!
My gosh mbmouse, you always have a way of saying what I want to say before I even know it.
I agree that there needs to be a standard in order to receive free money. I have no problem with making B the minimum standard. Since a C is categorized as "average" in the grading scale, I think someone should do better than average in order to receive free cash from the state.
Gem, I have no doubt that you worked hard in college, and I know there are others who do so. I am always amazed at some of my non-traditional students who have more on their plate than just school and homework. I don't know if I would have the gumption to do what they do.
Nonetheless, they know the deal. If they want free lottery money for their education, they have to maintain a B average. No questions asked. I don't think that's being unfair, either. No one is required to go to college, and no one is required to receive free money, either. I know of students who qualify for the lottery money but refuse to accept it on principal.
At any rate, gemthornton is a good example of someone who didn't get a free handout in college but still managed to become successful in life. My hats off to you!
The problem I have with using high school averages as the main basis for lottery scholarships is that it ignores the potential for favoritism and grade bias both between school systems and within a system. Especially with small, rural school systems where you may also find school officials pursuing family feuds and taking care of their own relatives. When I graduated from high school my graduating class was about 30 students. I was solidly in the bottom third for reasons which really had nothing to do with academics. ACT tests were the standard of the time for college entrance. I made a 31 overall with a 35 in the math/science section. The valedictorian of my class, who had a 99+ average in high school, made an 8. And due to being a valedictorian received a scholarship to college where she spent a year in remedial courses and dropped out. Through a patchwork of need based grants, loans, part time jobs and the occasional break from college to pay off debt I now have three degrees and most of two more. Yeah, at this point I think I'm a collector . I also still have a substantial chunk of debt to go with them. I'd rather see an either/or system where high school averages or entrance exam scores could be used as the basis of eligibility.
The problem I have with using high school averages as the main basis for lottery scholarships is that it ignores the potential for favoritism and grade bias both between school systems and within a system. Especially with small, rural school systems where you may also find school officials pursuing family feuds and taking care of their own relatives. When I graduated from high school my graduating class was about 30 students. I was solidly in the bottom third for reasons which really had nothing to do with academics. ACT tests were the standard of the time for college entrance. I made a 31 overall with a 35 in the math/science section. The valedictorian of my class, who had a 99+ average in high school, made an 8. And due to being a valedictorian received a scholarship to college where she spent a year in remedial courses and dropped out. Through a patchwork of need based grants, loans, part time jobs and the occasional break from college to pay off debt I now have three degrees and most of two more. Yeah, at this point I think I'm a collector . I also still have a substantial chunk of debt to go with them. I'd rather see an either/or system where high school averages or entrance exam scores could be used as the basis of eligibility.
I misspoke. Entering freshmen must have a minimum 2.75 GPA (which is a C+) after their first 24 semester hours of college. After that, they must maintain a 3.0 (B).
High school students must have a 3.0 GPA when they finish high school and also must score at least a 21 on the ACT or 980 on the SAT in order to receive the lottery scholarship which is $4,000/year at 4-year institutions and $2,000/year at 2-year institutions.
You're right that a B average in some high schools is laughable. In theory, the ACT/SAT scores are the great equalizers.
Last edited by JMT; 12-05-2007 at 10:59 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Give more kids a break.
. I also still have a substantial chunk of debt to go with them. I'd rather see an either/or system where high school averages or entrance exam scores could be used as the basis of eligibility.
