News, Alexander: Plug-In Electric Vehicles Will Lower Gas Prices. (environment, maintenance)

[John1960]

NASHVILLE, Tenn. - U.S. Sen. Lamar Alexander said within five years thousands of Tennesseans could be driving electric cars and trucks they plug into standard electric wall outlets.

Alexander spoke Monday at a bipartisan TVA forum at the Tennessee state capitol. The Tennessee Valley Authority provides electricity to 8.7 million consumers in Tennessee and six surrounding states.

NewsChannel 5.com - Nashville, Tennessee - Alexander: Plug-In Electric Vehicles Will Lower Gas Prices

[mrradio]

Widespread use of electricity to power our nation's vehicles outside of limited numbers is, and will be for many years, a completely unattainable pipe dream. News sound bites perpetuate the fiction of simply plugging in your car, charging it, and driving off, pollution-free.

Points of reality to consider:

1. If electricity were to be used to replace even a significant fraction of the gasoline we now use, we would have to invest hundreds of billions (trillions, most likely) to upgrade our electrical generation and distribution capacity. To power a large percentage of our vehicles would require multiplying our nation's electrical system capacity several times.

2. Even if we were to accomplish the above, what fuel is going to be used to power the enormous increase in generating capacity?

3. Alternating current (the stuff we use) cannot be stored. Converting it to direct current (that can be stored) would require a whole new system of rectification and/or generation as well as a storage system on a scale that is beyond our technology. Further, this stored direct current would (most likely) have to reconverted back to alternating current to be sent any distance (although there are some long distance DC lines) and certainly reconverted to alternating current before it arrived at your home. We do not have a technology that can store megawatts of power. Electricity stored in things like car batteries, etc. is trivial in comparison to what industry, homes, schools,etc. require.
Utilities must, in general, run their plants 24/7, generating power regardless of whether it is used or not. At the very least we would need (and should, in my opinion, have today) a much wider use of nuclear energy for electrical generation as do so many countries. It currently produces about 20% of our energy; there is no reason why it could not be more.

4. There will be no more long-distance driving since current technology limits the batteries' stored capacity in amp/hrs to about 150 miles before recharging. This, of course, precludes its use by delivery companies, etc.

5. The very expensive, heavy batteries used have a certain limited life both in terms of use and in the number of charge/discharge cycles so they will have to be replaced periodically at great cost. These batteries are not comparable in type to the simple single battery that you now have in your car. Additionally, their heavy weight and size works against passenger carrying capability/trunk space as well as miles per amp/hr.

[mbmouse]

I agree with the above points for the most part as well, it will never happen. Just changing one shortage and problem for another.
I personally think the true answer is nuclear fuel cells, they would only need to be the size of a "c" battery, to fuel one car for about 30 years. No gas, no admissions. However that too will not happen because people freak out with the word "nuclear".And big oil companies want everyone to keep freaking out about the word. Even though this type would not be explosive, you need to add an explosive charge to make it explode and to fuel a car, that would not be there.
AND we do have the only plant in the country that are already making nuclear fuel cells to power all the Navy and Air force air craft carriers floating in all the oceans all over the world right here in TN. We could be the first state to almost eliminate the need for gasoline.
However, again, won't happen.

[jsherman9901]

Originally Posted by mbmouse

I personally think the true answer is nuclear fuel cells, they would only need to be the size of a "c" battery, to fuel one car for about 30 years. No gas, no admissions. However that too will not happen because people freak out with the word "nuclear".And big oil companies want everyone to keep freaking out about the word. (

I agree with you about the value of nuclear energy, but don't believe it is "big oil" that is fueling the anti-nuke hype. It is a concerted effort by the self-appointed environmental Nazis that frustrate every effort this country makes to become energy independent. Sometimes I wonder if these people are in league with the moslems to try to turn back the clock to the middle ages

[mbmouse]

Originally Posted by jsherman9901

I agree with you about the value of nuclear energy, but don't believe it is "big oil" that is fueling the anti-nuke hype. It is a concerted effort by the self-appointed environmental Nazis that frustrate every effort this country makes to become energy independent. Sometimes I wonder if these people are in league with the moslems to try to turn back the clock to the middle ages

I agree, they too are anti nuclear, which is hypocritical of them as nuclear is better for the environment than anything else we currently consume. Makes no sense, but then again, when do those groups ever make sense?

[mrradio]

We are currently paying for the folly of our misdirected (non-existent) energy policy of the past thirty years. We have had a national debate about whether our energy source should be oil, nuclear, wind, coal, hydroelectric, geothermal, etc. The answer is, "All of the above".

We ask other countries to do and to bear the costs of those things that we refuse to do ourselves within our own borders, i.e., drill for oil. This is NIMBYism on an international rather than local scale. Other countries are most happy to provide us with oil yet now we complain about their policies, our "energy independence", and, most of all, the price that they ask for their product. We can be no more energy independent that we are copper, aluminum, or chromium independent.

We don't want to realize that the world has changed and that the price of oil, like any commodity, is set on a worldwide basis. Suppose, for the sake of discussion, we subsitute gold for oil for a minute and that you own a domestic US gold mine. If everyone in the world is paying, say, $800 an ounce for gold would you be willing to sell it for $600 an ounce? Thus even if oil is discovered and extracted in significantly greater quantities domestically (possible, but rather doubtful), this domestic production would have to flood the worldwide market (not just domestic-remember your US gold mine) to bring down the cost of oil.

One further thought on current production; if you have significant proven reserves in the ground and the price is escalating, why would you want to ramp up production now? If you see further price increases ahead you would value your in-ground reserves higher than the marginal barrel you could extract today. Add to this a political overlay (Iran's policies toward the US, Chavez wishing to become the new Fidel Castro, etc.) and there is actually a disincentive to produce.

Turrning to the ever-fallible crystal ball, this century will probably see a breakthrough in nuclear fusion which will end the issue of landfill/toxic waste (incredibly high plasmas reducing everything to molecules, not only vaporizing matter but breaking down the vapors themselves), and much cheaper electricity. We are at the far fringe of a transitional period in power generation and we now have more in common with cave dwellers burning wood for heat and light than we have with future sources. As we move ahead, the next few decades will be painful but the issuie will be solved. Imagine life if we in fact had unlimited sources of cheap energy. Sounds good? It will happen.

Crystal ball off.

[LauraC]

There is no place for apartment dwellers to plug in a car.

I'm more interested in what the Japanese are up to with cars that run on water...any kind of water.

YouTube - H2O Car - Water Powered Car

[mbmouse]

Originally Posted by LauraC

There is no place for apartment dwellers to plug in a car.

I'm more interested in what the Japanese are up to with cars that run on water...any kind of water.

YouTube - H2O Car - Water Powered Car

Now THAT is awesome! Yep, I have now changed my mind, water is a MUCH better plan!
Hubby and I have a summer project to get the RX7 back on the road, maybe we will give this conversion a try.

[LauraC]

Originally Posted by mbmouse

Now THAT is awesome! Yep, I have now changed my mind, water is a MUCH better plan!
Hubby and I have a summer project to get the RX7 back on the road, maybe we will give this conversion a try.

There is no storage space (groceries, suitcases, etc.) in that example car but I'm thinking it's just a spec car. The actual one could be a little bigger.

[Tek_Freek]

There is a misunderstanding of when and how a plug-in hybrid will be charged.

The majority of the vehicles will be plugged in overnight when the electrical capacity of our generating stations is largely unused. Since the facilities that generate this power don't shut down at night we will actually be using energy that is "wasted" at this time.

Plugging in a hybrid doesn't require any fancy electrical changes to the existing system. You just plug it in. The conversion process is taken care of by the electronics in the car. Household current works just fine.

Expect forward thinking cities and businesses to add solar powered charging stations in parking lots. Depending on your location (amount of sun available) a trickle charge all day would help keep the battery topped off and the only cost is the initial installation plus maintenance.

Distance is currently (heh, heh) a problem, but there are some interesting technologies being developed that should yield longer distances using new-technology batteries or capacitors. This, in conjunction with small gasoline engines, should give much better mileage. If Toyota can get the Lithium-ion battery problem licked in the Prius they are expecting 80-100 mpg and 4 miles at up to 40mph on battery alone. These numbers are from memory and might be a bit off. If you want I'll dig out the information and pass any corrections along.



I know some dislike the style, but I think it will be pretty nice if this is really the "new" Prius.