what dissappointed me about moving to East TN (Knoxville, Morristown: public school, to live)
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NCTarheel, according to the Tax Foundation, which is kind of a data-collecting oversight organization, Tennessee ranks 48 out of 50 states for local and state tax burden, not including the federal taxes that all have to pay. And, yes, TN does have great roads and health care to boot.
As one might expect New York at #3 is up there with VT, #1 and ME, at #2 right at the top of the list of highest taxed states in the Union. I don't mind being way down on the list at 48th.
So, what on the surface seems to be major taxation is quite low in comparison to almost every other state in the country! Sounds good to me.
Actually, according to their statistics, you folks in NC are much heavier taxed than most Southern states with a ranking of 19th highest state and local taxes.
really? I have heard people complaining of taxes in tennessee. Must be some small minor taxes on things like luxuries or something other. yes we are taxed to death here in NC. Its redicolus.
One tax that I found high in TN was hotel taxes. Hotel rooms are expensive in TN.
Nevermind, Forget It, Don't Even Think About It...
You know, back on 6-9-07, I posted a response in an attempt to articulate my thoughts about Tennessee. However, after reading all of the whining about taxes, milk prices, the lack of roadside farmer's markets(?!?), no Meijer (who's Meijer?), blah, blah, blah, ad infinitum, ad nauseum, I've decided that you people who gripe about all of these ancillary facets of life in Tennessee just won't be happy there. In fact, it's my educated opinion that you won't be happy ANYWHERE. So, just stay where you are since you wouldn't be happy anyway because you obviously have other issues that are unaddressed. The mountains are beautiful, but if you can't appreciate them (i.e., the Forest for the Trees syndrome), just stay put. You wouldn't like the ticks, the chiggers, the black widow spiders, a whole host of jumping spiders, other creepy-crawlies, the rattlesnakes, the coyotes, the opossums, the skunks, the field mice, the blacksnakes, the deer, and the turkeys in your manicured lawn crapping in the middle of it and eating your rhododendrons.
Every time you toy with the idea of moving to TN , just focus on one thing - TENNESSEE SUCKS, I WON'T BE HAPPY THERE, and I'M STAYIN' WHERE I CAN BE MISERABLE MOST COMFORTABLY.
Just DON't pollute the state with your crappy attitude. I know that I'll get flack from voicing my opinion, but, geez, I so HATE whiners - it's anathema and an insult to the history of the area and its people..........
Well, I don't think Tn sucks, but most of it is 'way behind the times, and people like Pah18 abound here. They are unable to take the slightest criticism or comparison without attacking. Maybe it's because here in Morristown I've noticed a lot of "helplessness" with life and "the way things are". This grew as basically a factory town, and that has been the big aspiration of a lot of people - a good job in a factory. Yes, things are changing and horizons are broadening, but people who are "from here" like to attack outsiders who criticize. They themselves can gripe all they want, but as soon as someone who "ain't from here" has an opinion or observation, they are very hateful - they don't want you to "larn them nothin'" as if you might think you are better than they are, or you know more than they do! God forbid that they are not the most informed, aware, educated, sophisticated townsfolk that ever lived! Perhaps they are tired of being reminded of how little they have lived with and accepted all their lives, yet they weren't curious or bold enough to actually venture out and find out how people live elsewhere. They are incredibly defensive.
This little town has a lot of people who think the "big wigs" are anyone with money/power/their own thriving business, etc. I learned in the big city that some people with money are merely big jerks. To me, a person is worthy of respect or admiration only if they do well for their community and treat others well. Too much power over politics and policies here has been in the hands of a handful of self-serving individuals who abuse their power, thus the attitude of some of the town natives.
Tn is a "right to work" state, I believe, which is a misnomer that means they hate unions and you can be fired with no warning for any reason, justified or not. Here's an interesting item: it was the Hispanics working at the local chicken processing plant who succeeded in unionizing it about 2 years ago! The locals simply complained and either worked there or left; of course, the same locals gripe about the Hispanic influence and label them all as "illegals". Yes, Redneckia is alive and well.
Tn is also at the bottom of the barrel for education, basically. (And bible classes are still given on the hush-hush in some of the public schools.) People who grew up here commonly think that the ACLU is a bad word, bad people have conspired to "take God out of the schools", atheists could be devil-worshippers, and yes, evolution is misguided and a sinful, harmful teaching.
As for support for the arts, intellectual discourse, stuff like that? Ha, ha, ha, ha - even at the local college, if you say something like "intellectual discourse" you'll get a lot of classmates looking at you like they just realized you are from Mars, and if there's a brave one, he/she will say, "Ah dunno whutchew jus' say-ed". Ok, ok, I'm being unfair describing how some speak, but really, don't they even listen to the news or any half-decent television show to hear more than 2-syllable words? I'm not being overboard here - if you bring your young children to live here, you must be extremely careful at home to foster better language, because your children will learn to say "ain't" and not bother to conjugate verbs (I don't, you don't, he don't) and will use double negatives (it don't matter none).
Yes, there are interesting, higher-minded people, but the percentage is so low that it makes it a constant fight warding off the oppression/repression and low achievement/apathy/low mentality of most of the local population. Also, the restrictive, narrow-minded religious attitude is crippling to "intelligent discourse" in general. And yes, this is a dry county. If you like the occasional mixed drink or wine with your meal, basically you can forget it. Live in Knoxville (although in Knoxville a few months ago I was seated next to two women in a restaurant discussing life there after moving from California a couple of years ago, and they were horrified. One of them has a son in high school who said he was leaving Knoxville for university in California as soon as he finished high school.) A few places here are allowed to sell you beer or wine coolers, and there are liquor stores, but the powers-that-be seem to assume that only low-lifes want alcohol, and upstanding people wouldn't want to be seen imbibing with their meal, would they? Liquor is sinful, doncha know? Freedom - even in "big city" Knoxville (really more like a big town) - is not valued or practiced like it is in many other areas of North America. It is easy to offend by saying things that are considered normal comments and/or discussion elsewhere.
I married a local man, and love the beautiful countryside and some aspects of the slower pace, but after 10 years I am starving for a greater number of more higher-minded, artsy, motivated people. I know a few lovely people here who feel the same way. We can speak to each other about these things, and we do what we can, but I am planning on leaving the area for at least 1/2 the year at a time in order to be among people who enjoy theory, intellect, cultural diversity, etc.
That's my take, for what it's worth. And by the way, even the people in Jefferson City (6-7 miles west of here) look down on Morristown, and consider it "rough" and "backwoods", etc. Jefferson City has Carson Newman Baptist College, and has had many international students and visitors, and more educated people perhaps (Carson-Newman is a 4-year college).
Sorry if I seem "negative". I have attempted to be precise in identifying factors, attitudes and realities of life here if you are not used to such a lifestyle. I am very glad more people are moving into the area so they can raise standards and raise awareness. However, I am old enough that I cannot wait the 10-20 years for the benefits, the old guard dying off, etc., which is why I will be choosing time away for various parts of the year, at least.
You know, back on 6-9-07, I posted a response in an attempt to articulate my thoughts about Tennessee. However, after reading all of the whining about taxes, milk prices, the lack of roadside farmer's markets(?!?), no Meijer (who's Meijer?), blah, blah, blah, ad infinitum, ad nauseum, I've decided that you people who gripe about all of these ancillary facets of life in Tennessee just won't be happy there. In fact, it's my educated opinion that you won't be happy ANYWHERE. So, just stay where you are since you wouldn't be happy anyway because you obviously have other issues that are unaddressed. The mountains are beautiful, but if you can't appreciate them (i.e., the Forest for the Trees syndrome), just stay put. You wouldn't like the ticks, the chiggers, the black widow spiders, a whole host of jumping spiders, other creepy-crawlies, the rattlesnakes, the coyotes, the opossums, the skunks, the field mice, the blacksnakes, the deer, and the turkeys in your manicured lawn crapping in the middle of it and eating your rhododendrons.
Every time you toy with the idea of moving to TN , just focus on one thing - TENNESSEE SUCKS, I WON'T BE HAPPY THERE, and I'M STAYIN' WHERE I CAN BE MISERABLE MOST COMFORTABLY.
Just DON't pollute the state with your crappy attitude. I know that I'll get flack from voicing my opinion, but, geez, I so HATE whiners - it's anathema and an insult to the history of the area and its people..........
I also don't get the whining and I do have a question - If these people are supposedly so smart why did they move here? How do supposedly smart people pick a state or town for which they are so unsuited? Can't be that smart.
This, by the way, is something you don't just hear in this state. This goes for everybody who moves someplace and complains about how much smarter they are than the people in their new town or their new state. If I was a local I would have to say, "If you're so smart, how did you make such an expensive and poor decision to move to a place that's so not right for you? DUH!"
Unless the place changed drastically after you moved there...
I don't know anyone who makes a decision on where to live by whether they can buy booze in town or how much they pay for milk. But, I would have to say if those things are factors in a relocation decision, they are easily researched before the move.
The question is - Are people smart enough to know what's important to them before they decide where to move?
In other words, I'd give a pass to people who pre-whine but don't move here. Those people are smart enough to know what they want/what's important to them and I'd just as soon as see them happy someplace else with a drive-by whine in this forum.
I don't believe that DiTech commercial on TV....people aren't smart!
yet we managed to stumble upon TN (is God smiling above and letting us think it was our desire?---doesn't it say somewhere that'll He'll give you the desires of your heart) and have been very happy. No place is perfect, for sure, but we've found something special here in Tennessee
Sorry if I seem "negative". I have attempted to be precise in identifying factors, attitudes and realities of life here if you are not used to such a lifestyle. I am very glad more people are moving into the area so they can raise standards and raise awareness. However, I am old enough that I cannot wait the 10-20 years for the benefits, the old guard dying off, etc., which is why I will be choosing time away for various parts of the year, at least.
You do not seem negative, but you seem a bit condescending. Much like Jean Rousseau's philosophy of the "noble savage", the quaint little people who are too backward to know any better so thus need to be guided into the new age. Well, I won't argue that the level of formal education is lagging behind, but in light of what constitutes formal education today, that is not exactly a standard I personally would aspire to. The bulk of American education is about teaching children what to think, not how to think. Consequently, when looking to area's touted as highly educated we see mass exodus of people moving to areas such as this, begging one to wonder why. I have lived in a great many places both in the US and abroad, and in my travels, I have found that most places claiming a proclivity to be heralded as what is best in a civilization, are in fact quite uncivilized.
In Tennessee, and in Appalachia in general, the economies have been basically based around agriculture, wood products, textiles, mining, and small scale manufacturing. These types of occupations do not normally require a high level of formal education. However something else occurs in such places and that is the growth of a natural knowledge, one that is generally attune with the natural world around us. This of course is the self-reliance aspect of the entire region and has led to a very proud tradition among the people. It is quite common to stop by any given rural home and see life skills beyond anything in suburbia or metro areas.
As to religious tendencies of the region, I happen to admire and rejoice in the spiritual nature of the area. I myself am a non-theist and yet have found living among people who are spiritual yet don't even share my beliefs to be a source of comfort. If for no other reasons than spirituality leading to aspirations of being a greater person, regardless of how one achieves this.
As you depicted the tendency for narrow minds in the area, and while I have certainly encountered closed and narrow minded people, I have encountered this type of person everywhere. From fundamentalist Christians to liberal intellectuals, none are so narrow than those who convinced that they may judge a culture from a standard they themselves set.
Yes rural Tennessee may not be as contemporary as many parts of the nation, however I don't know of a great number of rural people going door to door trying to sell the merits of their way of life. People are quite content to live as they have for generations, with the land, their faith, and like minded people in their communities. While I did not grow up in rural Tennessee, I did grow up in the rural Ozarks and understood the cadence of the culture and found upon my arrival, a lifestyle I so desperately missed. One of art, intellectual pursuit, and a connection to the land that has been in my blood since birth. This way of life is dying because so many others wish to share what I feel each day when I get up and look out my window. Tennessee is being loved to death, but such is progress and I am one who is humble by the fact that I have to opportunity to live in such a place and time.
I am sorry you do not see things in this manner, as it is common to see oneself as different, which is evident in your post. I wish you well in your quest to find an enlightened place to live, however if you can't find within yourself, you will unlikely find it in place.
Best of luck.
Last edited by TnHilltopper; 12-29-2007 at 11:27 AM..
This is the first place that I have lived where people have a grasp of current events and the world beyond their immediate community. There is a natural inquisitiveness and a quest for continued knowledge. I love it.
I actually copied and printed out one of GoodbyeHollywood's lines in a post:
"Sometimes, a person is best served by looking inward before looking outward.". I love it and will be taking it back to work with me after the holiday. I think it is very profound. I believe it applies in this thread as well. Tolerance is also key. I can get very annoyed at "rednecks" at times but I can get just as annoyed at "high-society" folks too. What one has to realize is, is that they are being them, I am being me, and we all have to find a way to get along. If that means a person needs to leave this area, so be it. But negativity won't do one bit of good. That doesn't mean that one can't provide constructive criticism or a better way; but to bltch and moan just to bltch and moan is not what any area needs. I don't think looking down on people in any given area shows that the people are "little", rather it shows much, much more about the character of the person that is "looking down". Any good psychology book will tell you that. Every single area has good and bad points; just like people. Funny how that works.
This is the first place that I have lived where people have a grasp of current events and the world beyond their immediate community. There is a natural inquisitiveness and a quest for continued knowledge. I love it.
Great post, TNHilltopper.
Of course with City-Data, we can also express our ideas and communicate with folks around the world from the comfort of our little corners of the great state of Tennessee
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokyMtnGal
"Sometimes, a person is best served by looking inward before looking outward.".
I'm afraid this is an all too common phenomenon. It is always easier to externalize our anxieties, problems, or issues but in many cases if we look at things for what they really are, it usually starts with ourselves.
I have this terrible instance on trying to see the good in all things, places and people. While Tennessee like everywhere else has its faults and problems, I can think of few places in this country I would rather live.
I'm afraid this is an all too common phenomenon. It is always easier to externalize our anxieties, problems, or issues but in many cases if we look at things for what they really are, it usually starts with ourselves.
In other words, "I have met the enemy and He is Me?"
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You know, back on 6-9-07, I posted a response in an attempt to articulate my thoughts about Tennessee. However, after reading all of the whining about taxes, milk prices, the lack of roadside farmer's markets(?!?), no Meijer (who's Meijer?), blah, blah, blah, ad infinitum, ad nauseum, I've decided that you people who gripe about all of these ancillary facets of life in Tennessee just won't be happy there. In fact, it's my educated opinion that you won't be happy ANYWHERE. So, just stay where you are since you wouldn't be happy anyway because you obviously have other issues that are unaddressed. The mountains are beautiful, but if you can't appreciate them (i.e., the Forest for the Trees syndrome), just stay put. You wouldn't like the ticks, the chiggers, the black widow spiders, a whole host of jumping spiders, other creepy-crawlies, the rattlesnakes, the coyotes, the opossums, the skunks, the field mice, the blacksnakes, the deer, and the turkeys in your manicured lawn crapping in the middle of it and eating your rhododendrons. 
