TN school rules (Murfreesboro, Unicoi: homes, job transfer, public schools)

[emilytn]

A word to the wise if you are not from the South and are planning on moving to it. Before you make a choice on where to live, spend a week observing how people interact with each other, new people and kids in all the places that you would normally be frequenting. I moved here a year ago from the West Coast and I really wish I had done that because I would probably have not chosen the location I did.

I don't know what the rest of Tennessee is like, but here in Murfreesboro people are very "legalistic" and "anal retentive" about the stupidest things and the schools treat students and parents like they can't be trusted at all. The reason you should make sure that you can deal with the way people act here is because people around here are not open to change AT ALL! It doesn't matter if they know they are doing things wrong or they could do them better. If you're not from the South, they won't give your opinions or suggestions the time of day. You could come up with the best ideas and methods in the world and they wouldn't even listen because they think the way they do things is good enough! That's one of the things that really bugs me about this area because I'm a person that always strives to improve, not just be "good enough". I've brought issues to the attention of the principal and school board and got absolutely no where. I ended up pulling my child out of school and homeschooling her because I was so fed up with the way the school was handling minor discipline issues.

That coupled with the unfriendliness just drives me nuts! I'm a very social person, so I normally talk with people while I'm waiting in line or chat with the clerk at the checkout counter etc. I have run into a few nice people here and there, but overall I would have to say that in Murfreesboro people are very unfriendly to newcomers. I've lived here for a year and some neighbors still won't even acknowledge me when I wave at them in passing. I can't tell you how many stores, churches and school functions I've attended where I'll say something to someone and they return my comment with only a blank stare. I just don't understand why anyone would act so unfriendly. The only explanation I can come up with is that people who do that just must be very unhappy people!

[LauraC]

Originally Posted by emilytn

A word to the wise if you are not from the South and are planning on moving to it. Before you make a choice on where to live, spend a week observing how people interact with each other, new people and kids in all the places that you would normally be frequenting. I moved here a year ago from the West Coast and I really wish I had done that because I would probably have not chosen the location I did.

I don't know what the rest of Tennessee is like, but here in Murfreesboro people are very "legalistic" and "anal retentive" about the stupidest things and the schools treat students and parents like they can't be trusted at all. The reason you should make sure that you can deal with the way people act here is because people around here are not open to change AT ALL! It doesn't matter if they know they are doing things wrong or they could do them better.

Why don't you tell us what the "anal retentive" "legalistic" stupid misguided mistrusting people of Murfreesboro, who don't know your way is the best way to do things, are doing wrong. Maybe the rest of us could be enlightened, too.

And, just in case the "anal retentive" people from Murfreesboro are thinking of moving and putting their kids in west coast schools, (although, I don't read much about Tennessee people fleeing to the west coast), it might be helpful to tell them why you moved away from those west coast schools.

[mbmouse]

well said LauraC....thank you for your restraint. heheheheh

[emilytn]

You probably like this area because this is always where you've lived and you're used to the way people are here. This is not at all what I'm used to and all I was saying in my first note is that if you're not from around here, make sure this is really the type of community you want to live in because its not likely that things will change.

We moved here from Oregon because of a job transfer and family being close by. The school that my kids went to was rated one of the top 500 public high schools in the country, and I loved the community we lived in so I didn't come here because I was trying to escape the West Coast.

Its not just my imagination that schools don't trust parents here - I was told that by the principal! Maybe you've just always been treated this way so you don't see it as mistrust, but I've lived in 4 different areas of the country and I have never had a school tell me they wouldn't accept my excuse for an absence or tardy.

Not trusting parents just makes me mad because most parents I know want their kids to go to school so they can go onto college and become successful in life. The way they have the whole tardy system set up is just ridiculous! They have these crazy guidelines like if you are riding the bus and it breaks down or runs into traffic, you are excused for being late. However, if you drive yourself and your car breaks down or you run into traffic you are NOT excused. The only tardy you're excused for when you drive is a doctor's appointment and in that case, you have to get a signed note from the doctor's office - not the parent! If the kids only received a detention for being late, I guess I wouldn't have such an problem with the policy, but that's not the case. If your child is tardy more than 5 times during a semester, they will receive 3 days of in-school SUSPENSION every time after the 5th tardy.

I found all this out the hard way. One day my daughter was hysterical on the way to school because she said she would get suspended if we got there late. I told her to calm down because driving safely was more important and promised to go in and make sure they had excused her for the times her dad or I wrote an excuse. When the school secretary told me that they didn't accept parent's excuses and my daughter was going to be given a 3 day in-suspension, I was livid. I just did not understand how any educated person would think confining a high school student to a classroom for 3 entire school days for tardiness was reasonable, so I talked to the principal about it. When I asked why they would not accept a parent's excuse, the principal told me that if they accepted parent's excuses, kids would be tardy all the time.

So then I asked why they handed out a 3 day in-school suspension for tardies instead of a detention, seeing that taking kids out of the classroom for 3 days is much more disruptive to their education than being 1 minute late to class is. The principal told me that the third and fourth time the kids are given detention, but after the 5th time the child is considered a serious offender. I'm thinking....okay, of all the things you have to worry about high school kids doing (drinking, smoking, drugs, having sex, getting into fights, stealing, and damaging property, etc), how is it that tardiness ever deserves an in-school suspension? I did some research on the effects of in-school suspension on schools and the type of correction used and brought it to the principal's and district's attention. I would have thought that when I presented them with the documentation that they would at least look into it, but they didn't care what the studies said.

I'm not the only one that feels the schools are over-zealous in enforcing the rules. I ran into a medical professional who's lived here a long time and advised me it would be in my best interest to homeschool my daughter rather than send her to the public high school. This person had the exact same experiences I did about 10 years ago and said it seemed to them that the school officials just lay in wait for the kids to do something wrong so that they could pounce on the kids. Trying to keep high school kids on the right path is hard enough without having to battle an environment that cares more about upholding the rules than it does about encouraging the kids to succeed. As our pastor just mentioned last week in a sermon, rules without relationship equals rebellion. I think that's why they have so many problems with the high school kids here.

I don't hate it here because people won't do things my way. I don't care if they take my suggestions on how to make it better. I just want them to be open to improvement and what's frustrates me is that I don't see that. I'm sorry if I offended you by complaining about the way things operate around here, but from my point of view that's what I see. Are you going to be so close minded that you won't even try to understand where Im coming from?

[HDL]

Maybe I can add a little humor to this situation. I hope you all enjoy this as much as I did. I received this in an email today from a frind of mine in CA:


This is the message that the Pacific Palisades High School (California) staff voted unanimously to record on their school telephone answering machine.

This is the actual answering machine message for the school. This came about because they implemented a policy requiring students and parents to be responsible for their children's absences and missing homework. The school and teachers are being sued by parents who want their children's failing grades changed to passing grades - even though those children were absent 15-30 times during the semester and did not complete enough schoolwork to pass their classes.

The outgoing message:

"Hello! You have reached the automated answering service of your school. In order to assist you in connecting to the right staff member, please listen to all the options before making a selection:

* To lie about why your child is absent - Press 1

* To make excuses for why your child did not do his work- Press 2

* To complain about what we do - Press 3

* To swear at staff members - Press 4

* To ask why you didn't get information that was already enclosed in your newsletter and several flyers mailed to you - Press 5

* If you want us to raise your child - Press 6

* If you want to reach out and touch, slap or hit someone -Press 7

* To request another teacher, for the third time this year -Press 8

* To complain about bus transportation - Press 9

* To complain about school lunches - Press 0

* If you realize this is the real world and your child must be accountable and responsible for his/her own behavior, class work, homework and that it's not the teachers' fault for your child's lack of effort:

Hang up and have a nice day!

*If you want this in Spanish, you must be in the wrong country

(This is hilarious - no wonder some people were offended!)

[LauraC]

You offended the people of Mufreesboro by calling them names because they won't do things your way. This isn't about the kids. They can't suspend you for not getting your kid to school on time so by not accepting your excuse, it seems like they are sending the message to the person who had control of the situation.

You might want to Search This Forum off the City Data Tennessee Forum main page for a thread titled "Go To Jail If Your Kid Skips School Too Much." If you enter "jail" as the key word and "search titles only" under that you'll pull up that thread from November 2006.

[hiknapster]

I was going to go into this long lecture about how EmilyTN is teaching her child to break the rules and not be responsible, blah, blah, blah...but I didn't need to. HappyDawgLady did it in such a classy way by posting that hilarious message. I've been sitting here laughing so hard I cried.

All, I've got to say to Pacific Palisades High School is "ain't that the truth?"

[Ridgerunner]

Originally Posted by emilytn

A word to the wise if you are not from the South and are planning on moving to it. Before you make a choice on where to live, spend a week observing how people interact with each other, new people and kids in all the places that you would normally be frequenting. I moved here a year ago from the West Coast and I really wish I had done that because I would probably have not chosen the location I did.

I don't know what the rest of Tennessee is like, but here in Murfreesboro people are very "legalistic" and "anal retentive" about the stupidest things and the schools treat students and parents like they can't be trusted at all. The reason you should make sure that you can deal with the way people act here is because people around here are not open to change AT ALL! It doesn't matter if they know they are doing things wrong or they could do them better. If you're not from the South, they won't give your opinions or suggestions the time of day. You could come up with the best ideas and methods in the world and they wouldn't even listen because they think the way they do things is good enough! That's one of the things that really bugs me about this area because I'm a person that always strives to improve, not just be "good enough". I've brought issues to the attention of the principal and school board and got absolutely no where. I ended up pulling my child out of school and homeschooling her because I was so fed up with the way the school was handling minor discipline issues.

That coupled with the unfriendliness just drives me nuts! I'm a very social person, so I normally talk with people while I'm waiting in line or chat with the clerk at the checkout counter etc. I have run into a few nice people here and there, but overall I would have to say that in Murfreesboro people are very unfriendly to newcomers. I've lived here for a year and some neighbors still won't even acknowledge me when I wave at them in passing. I can't tell you how many stores, churches and school functions I've attended where I'll say something to someone and they return my comment with only a blank stare. I just don't understand why anyone would act so unfriendly. The only explanation I can come up with is that people who do that just must be very unhappy people!

Murfreesboro is probably the fastest growing town in Tennessee over the past 10-15 years. In my experience, residents of rapidly growing areas are generally not as friendly as those in other areas. This is because a large percentage of the population consists of newcomers and transients. Many of these people feel like outsiders and this tends to create "stand-offishness."

[mbmouse]

emilytn,
Yes, I do understand your frustration. I have lived in 3 different states. I have 2 children is school, one middle, one high school. The last state we lived in was FL where they didn't care why or if your child was late, there or not, passed or failed. Or they just passed the child because they had to. I have to say I agree with TN school tardy rules. If the child is absent 5 times per semester, the parent has to go before a judge and explain why the child is missing so much from school. If they are not in school, for the full school day, how can they keep up with the class? There is a woman in Unicoi county that was just put in jail for 3 days because her daughter was skipping school and had racked up 5 unexcused absences. And it is not like she didn't know because if you child is not in school that day, the school calls (person to person, not an automated message) the parents and asks if they know their child was not in school if the parent has not called to say their child will not be there. Yes, this is in the school hand books, if you know your child won't be in school that day, YOU have to go pick up their work for them so they won't get behind. As for tardies, the teachers are told they HAVE to begin teaching the minute school begins. If a student comes in 5 minutes after the bell, that disrupts the class and the teacher. The rules state that your child has to be in the class room, seated and ready to start when the bell rings, not just on school grounds.
I believe they are also trying to teach these kids about the real world. If you showed up 5 minutes late 3 times a week to your job with a constant excuses, on a repeated basis, are you going to be able to keep your job? Is that going to make an impact on weather you get a raise or not? Will you get the promotion? No.
School tardies rules are State wide in TN. Your daughters school tardy rules in Murfeebrough are the same as my child's here in Washington County, as with the rest of the TN public schools. The reasoning behind it? I believe it is because there are a large percentage of lazy parents out there who use the school system as child care or just don't care if their child graduates or drops out and "draws" a check for the rest of their lives like they have. Well, the school system wants to change this trend, they want the child to grow into adulthood choosing there own coarse in life and they HAVE. They make the kids (high school aged) accountable as well as the parent. If a student comes to the administration and says their parents won't bring them to school on time and there is no bus, they will make the arrangements to insure that child can get to school on time.
This is why the old adage, "It takes a village to raise a child" is so true. The schools are part of that village.


(Have to put this in two posts as it is too long)

[mbmouse]

You mentioned that schools have bigger issues to deal with than tardies such as drugs and crime. Not in the schools my boys are in. They remove those students to an "Alternative school" (one per county if I am not mistaken) and the parents ,or students themselves if they are old enough to drive, have to get them to that school,on time or they are kicked out, there is no bus. Parents have lost there jobs over this. But hey, if your child is dealing/doing drugs, fighting, defacing property or any other criminal act, the parent isn't paying enough attention to their child and if that child is under 18, they need to be held accountable. And this WORKS! Yes there are problems in every school all across the country, but if you look at the stats for TN (with the exception of a few "inner city" school systems in the state, whom if you dig hard enough will find that these rules were not enforced or extremely underfunded and there is not enough staff TO enforce these rules) there are A LOT less instances of criminal acts in TN school systems and even less that are made by repeat offenders. Look at states like CA and NY. The teachers and administrators hands are tide. They are complaining they can't teach are are afraid of the students. Why? Because it has gotten so far out of hand and the "let the children express themselves" "don't punish a child" "they have rights too" and other such sentiments have been pushed to such an extent that the parents and school systems have no more control and have to look to law enforcement to fix it. By then the behaviors have been learned.
So please don't think it is just your daughters school that won't change there rules. These tardy/absentee rules are in place because they have proven to work. Since these rules were put into place state wide,( I believe about 15 years ago) % of high school drop outs have declined. The amount of scholarships offered have risen. The work force performance has improved.
Please do not think I am disparaging you or discounting your concerns. I am just explaining my views as to why the school systems rules are in place.
Personally, I feel that if the TN school systems have been able to improve the quality of education the children get and still keep property taxes low, the only way this could have happened is because it is the teachers/administration and parents working together to have made it happen within our state. I too may not always agree with every rule but I know there is a reason for it and tell my children the same and we have to live by it.
Sure, I want my child to strive for better, always improve but that is my job to give that to them outside of the school system.
Again, just my personal take on it all.