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I've been reading this forum for about a week now. So I've had a chance to read many posts from people. Most are from out of state. Quite a few are from places in the Midwest or Northeast. My analysis seems to be that close to half of those moving here are retirees. The other half are people with families.
Now we all saw what happened to Florida once it became the "in" place for retirees to go. But FL is a fairly big extreme since such an enormous amount of retirees moved there. TN isn't even close to being an old state. The avg age right now statewide hovers between 35-37. That's pretty young. So the threat of a retiree invasion seems remote.I'll admit that seeing so many retirees wanting to move here is slightly concerning to me. But they too are an important part of the economy in the form of disposable cash assets.
At the same time, what could potentially be the future population of TN? Will it be mixed with young and old alike? Of course nobody knows for sure, but it might be interesting to discuss.
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I won't be living in a retirement community nor will I be building a house and mowing down the trees. In fact, my apartment complex of mixed aged people is being built on a stretch of grass. I think they'll actually have to plant some trees and flowers on what used to be a plain old grass lot to landscape the place.
I won't be having kids but I (and others of my retirement ilk) will be paying for yours (not you personally) to have better schools and a nice new modern high school by paying, I think, the worst sales tax rate in the state. Not having kids, my "nonchildren" and the "nonchildren" of my fellow transplant retirees will not cause overcrowding in your schools.
Last I checked, grandma and grandpa were not breaking into your houses and cars or commiting acts of vandalism. Although there may be one, I know of no Grey Haired Gangs who mug, assault or car jack you in Tennessee. If dopers and dopes who deal to dopers, live to be as old as most retirees, they are probably living large, not in some "McMansion" or "Cookie Cutter" house, but in the State Penitentiary.
We're the transplants that won't be competing with you for good jobs but we'll be spending money to keep local business owners in business while you are at work. Maybe you (not you personally) are one of them who depend on our business to keep your restaurant, store, medical practice, dog grooming business, etc., afloat.
While you are busy working during the week and busy taking care of personal business on the weekend, me and many of my retirement ilk will be stocking and maintaining shelves at the public library, answering questions for your children and tourists at the museums, parks, visitor centers, etc. We'll be planning and working on town events like parades and concerts in the park that you and your family enjoy on the weekends. We'll be manning the polling places where you stop in to vote on your way to work. Would you be willing to lose a day's pay if retirees weren't there to perform that service? We'll also be helping people who need help because we will be the ones available when they need that help. When you are in the hospital, we're the ones you will see in your room who aren't getting money for being there. Who do you think makes up a huge chunk of the volunteer population?
When you're cussing at the traffic on your daily commute to work on I-40 or I-81, for example, I'll still be home reading the local newspaper or sleeping, and will not be the target of your too many transplants motorist rant because who in their right mind, you included, would want to be mired in traffic if they didn't have to be. In fact, I think you will find NOT HAVING TO COMMUTE is in the Top 5 reasons why people retire. When I do get out to attend class, it's going to be less than 1 mile away on 3 neighborhood streets. And then there are our taxes that also go towards making the highways sweeeeet for the commuters but that we retirees don't use even half as much as you do.
I'm coming with very good health insurance that I pay for, too. I'm not close to being eligible for medicare or even eligible for senior discounts and by the time I get to be that age, they'll probably have raised the age of eligibility.
Oh, and one more thing, the Knoxville area (not just the city) wants to attract 18 - 34 year olds for high tech jobs over the next 10 - 14 years. If you want to home grow the people to fill these jobs, you need to do something about shooting for an extremely good math/science high school and college education for your kids. And guess what, retirees will help with taxes and by not putting a burden on school capacity. It would be good for the area to also retain the retiring scientists/techies in the area to mentor those kids. In fact, I would even target my Tennessee retirement recruitment efforts to "high tech" areas around the country. What high salaried scientist/techie wouldn't want a choice of rural, suburban, urban areas to live that are much cheaper than where they live now and still afford them the intellectual opportunity to be among like minded peers in retirement?
I'm retiring because I spent 35 years on the job not because I want to suck the life out of some town/State. States that are making a concerted effort to lure retirees know that there's something in it for them or they wouldn't be doing it.
That being said, who watched Seinfeld? If that didn't kill your desire to be a retiree in Florida, I don't know what would.
Wow. Some really thoughtful comments on this thread. Interesting how everyone has a very concise view of the situation. MBmouse, indeed about once a year or so, I come and visit my parents. On the way back from Nashville, driving across middle TN, I totally forget how sparsely populated a vast majority of the state is. The fact that you can drive from one end of the state to another on often empty 4 lane freeways in about 7-8 hours is testament to this. There are 38 million people in CA. There are a little over 5.5 million in TN. Even given the size differences, this is a staggering difference.
I am, as someone mentioned, thinking aloud. But mainly my concerns have arisen out of the success I think TN is having and might potentially have into the foreseeable future. It has an uncanny ability to attract new business from national and international companies. The variety of industries that are springing up are very healthy. Research, education, manufacturing , and entertainment all seem to be growing my leaps and bounds. Many of the cities I knew as a young person as dirty, depressing, and stewing in economic uncertainty have really cleaned up and become great places to live. At the same time, local institutions like various art workshops, radio stations like WDVX, and many other of the like are helping to raise further awareness of the area's cultural significance. In many ways, I am proud of my home state. Things look to be really going well.
These types of things are what make an area great and help it prosper. But at the same time, I can easily see the scales get tipped too far in one direction and be overrun into the wrong direction, meaning overdevelopment, mismanaged planning, and so on as more and more people gorge themselves on "cheap" property and become reliant on the monotonous nature of strip malls and national chains. This is the kind of Tennessee I hope I never see. This is also why I think now is the time that perhaps some suggestions aught to be made to various planning commissions on how to handle development in a more controlled yet stable manner. In other words, not to restrict growth necessarily ( hence making it ultimately unaffordable) but to plan for the future so that communities work more with the existing infrastructure rather than bowl it over in the form of massive New england style Mcmansions 2 blocks away from I-75 and a Home Depot.
and laura... I was not in any way trying to berate retirees.As I mentioned, retirees are an important part of the economy. But you cannot deny that if TN turns into retirement central that it would not bode well for those trying to get a start. If retirees come into the state in force, with the huge amount of equity gleaned from their CA,NY, MI, etc etc home along with 50 years of retirement income, then they will simply buy homes for cash and cause the price of housing to rise and possibly become more difficult to acquire for first time homeowners.I've seen this exact thing happen in FL and CA. It can happen in TN too.The same would be equally bad if for some reason, Nashville became the next NY and loads of young dapper shark lawyers flooded the area and caused the same thing. Too much of a population archetype can alter the economics of a region, and do so rather quickly. So my concerns are not whether you are retired or now, but more about keeping a careful balance. I also understand what you are trying to imply when you say:
won't be having kids but I (and others of my retirement ilk) will be paying for yours (not you personally) to have better schools and a nice new modern high school by paying, I think, the worst sales tax rate in the state.
Every generation likes to play the blame game. I bet quite a few in your generation liked to blame your parent's generation for your problems too. But really at the end of the day, all that matters is that everyone has a comfortable place to live and can do so well within their means. We will be paying for your generation, and in some ways, you will be paying for us. That's how a democratic society works.
But I do hope that if many who retire and move here, then they will enjoy it to the fullest extent, get to know our culture, our ways of living, and learn a lot about life in general outside the fast lane. Good luck in your future travels.
We aren't retirees yet, but, my hubby can retire in a couple of years if he wants to..
but, just to set you straight.
Not everyone, retiree or otherwise moving into Tennessee have the big bucks.
Our house is maxed out with the equity... so, when we sell it, we'll be lucky to have enough to move with.
We won't be buying one of those big expensive homes.
We'll be one of the blue collar workers buying a house for $100,000 or less.
It may be a fixer upper, but, that's ok. I can paint, and I can hang sheet rock, even do a little electric or plumbing if I have to.
We don't have to worry about taking someone elses job, we'll be transferring in, and a job will be waiting for us.
I've been fortunate to be a stay at home Mom, only, it's still been a little tight at times. We live paycheck to paycheck.
I don't like cold either.... I like warm climates, a place for a garden, a few chickens, and kids running around all over the place.
Oh, and I love to be barefoot... guess, I'm one of those barefoot and happy gals.... LOL..
I don't mind the good ole boys and I don't mind the slower pace either, in fact, it's refreshing.
When we moved to Minnesota, everything doubled.
My husbands pay didn't change. So, the cost of living went way up, but the paycheck didn't.
We moved here for my husbands parents.
Now, my Dad needs me.
I love Tennessee, and 3/4's of my relatives are all there.
It's where my roots are.
No matter where we lived growing up a piece of Tennessee went with us. You could hear it everytime my Mom opened her mouth to speak.
You could see it in the food that she cooked.
You could hear it everytime my brothers and sisters and I said, yes maam, and no maam.
We won't be taking from Tennessee when we move there, we'll be putting back.
It's my roots... it's my heritage, it's my people.
I'm just going home.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sliverbox
If retirees come into the state in force, with the huge amount of equity gleaned from their CA,NY, MI, etc etc home along with 50 years of retirement income, then they will simply buy homes for cash and cause the price of housing to rise and possibly become more difficult to acquire for first time homeowners.
again... I'm not trying to put down retirees. Of course there are exceptions to any rule. There are retirees with less money, and some with lots of money. But a quick look at any stats showing what the avg retiree has shows that by and large, they have a significant amount of savings.
This is in their own right . That's what we all do. We work, save, and plan so that someday we can retire and live comfortably.If you busted your rear for 40 years, saved, and so forth, then yes- you do deserve a retirement to your liking. This is the case for a lot of retirees. So yes, there are many who aren't absolutely loaded, but for the most part, the retirement or soon-to-retire age brackets are at the peak of their earning cycles. Ever wonder who's buying up 2nd and 3rd homes? Retirees. Where are they buying? Anywhere that's warm- aka- the south, west, etc etc. So when I say that there is a chance that TN could be inundated with retirees, I'm not personally trying to attack retirees, but you have to look at the real financial implications of a population that by virtue off their financial status can tip the scales of affordability if they come in massive numbers. This has no reflection on them whatsoever. I myself hope to attain the same standard of living in my retirement, and my hats off to those of you who made it.
As said in the last post, the same goes for those moving from other states. Let's say that a whole slew of Californians, New Yorkers, Bostonians, -basically anyone from anywhere that has much higher costs of living moves here. Let's say that fully half of these people sold their homes for close to the full price- an avg of 500k for most of these cities. If they had any equity at all in them, then a 100k home in TN, of which still exist in massive quantities will look like chicken feed. In fact, I hear people out here all the time saying how "cheap" it is in TN,NC,GA, etc etc. Then they show me the house they saw for 350k. If 350k sounds cheap to someone from out of state, then what do you think would happen if hundreds of thousands of these types of people move here? Think those property values will stay Nice-N-cheap? I doubt it.
What I'm getting at is that I think TN is in a somewhat vulnerable position only because it stands out for being so cheap in comparison to many other metropolitan areas. This alone overrides just about everything when it comes to what age group people are, and whatever financial background they come from. I swear there are A LOT of people who I just know a few years ago would've wrinkled their noses at the very thought of living anywhere even remotely conservative and Southern. yet these days I'm hearing a very different song from these people. The secret is now out that in reality, TN is actually a pretty great place. Conclusion: I hope it stays that way.
Oh, I know Sliverbox,
just wanted to "jerk your chain" a little.
Don't be so serious.....
Come on smile.....
Have a SUPER day today....
Quote:
Originally Posted by sliverbox
again... I'm not trying to put down retirees. Of course there are exceptions to any rule. There are retirees with less money, and some with lots of money.
TNbound,
No offense taken. In fact, I like this blog a lot because people are actually pretty cordial and friendly. That and they are smart and thoughtful. And as far as moving here from MI... I totally don't blame you. I spent a little time in Minneapolis. It is COOOLLLLD there! That must get to people after awhile.
Well, I wouldn't be here in MN unless, I had to.
Gotta go where my husband goes...
This winter has been really bad, two snowstorms back to back, and over 18 inches of snow. I have drifts about 3 feet tall in my front and back yard.
This is the worst since we've lived here.
My husband is a Minnesotan, but, doesn't want to live here.
He left when he was 19, went out to Idaho, where he met me.
That's kind of where I ended up after my Dad got out of the service.
We lived there a long time. Probably wouldn't have moved, except, he wanted to be near his parents... we lost his Dad about five years ago.
Most of my family is in Tennessee.
My Mom was born just outside of Nashville.
I have relatives all over Tennessee, even some of those moonshiner types.
LOL
I lost my Mom in September.
Now, my Dad needs me, and so we are going home..... where it's warm.
We'll be down there at the end of the month.
Won't be moving yet, mainly getting our bearings, figuring out exactly where we want to live, then, come back and do the rest... you know, selling the house, packing up and moving.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sliverbox
TNbound,
No offense taken. In fact, I like this blog a lot because people are actually pretty cordial and friendly. That and they are smart and thoughtful. And as far as moving here from MI... I totally don't blame you. I spent a little time in Minneapolis. It is COOOLLLLD there! That must get to people after awhile.
I do agree that attracting retirees to an area makes good business sense. Retirees shop locally, pay taxes, eat out locally, but they're not as much of a "burden" on the infrastructure since they don't have kids in the public schools.
However, in many places in Florida retirees have hijacked school financing so that many places in Florida have absolutely pitiful, overcrowded schools with no hope of relief. On the surface it would seem that schools in Florida should be flush with cash since all these retirees are paying into the system but not using the system. But apparently that's not the case.
And I most definitely do not want to see the same thing happen to Tennessee. (But I still like retirees!)
We also cannot ignore that another big factor in the out of control housing in Florida is the influx of people from many different countries who can and do pay well over market value and in cash for houses. This helped to artificially inflate the market down here (imho). I am not in TN, but I would hazard to guess that is not much of a factor there, at least not in the majority of the state.....
I do agree that attracting retirees to an area makes good business sense. Retirees shop locally, pay taxes, eat out locally, but they're not as much of a "burden" on the infrastructure since they don't have kids in the public schools.
However, in many places in Florida retirees have hijacked school financing so that many places in Florida have absolutely pitiful, overcrowded schools with no hope of relief. On the surface it would seem that schools in Florida should be flush with cash since all these retirees are paying into the system but not using the system. But apparently that's not the case.
And I most definitely do not want to see the same thing happen to Tennessee. (But I still like retirees!)
In FL the prob is with "The Tin-Can Tourists" and "Cheapskate Snowbirds".
They came here because they were cheap and wanted sun.
Untill 2002 where else could you buy a cheap trailer(for $8,000 -12,000) and live off the state so to speak...
How much prop. tx did/do these people pay??--Hardly none!
When the hurricanes came it blew their cheap little beach-front trailers to peices...And who paid for them.? Why WE did?
But than again the State should have NEVER allowed those cheapskates to put TRAILERS in a hurricane prone state...
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baby boomers but not retiring.... yet.
