Dosen't look good for the Wine in TN grocery stores issue (legal, sold)

[Beretta]

The latest: Prospects brighten for wine in Tenn. groceries » Knoxville News Sentinel

[nashvols]

Originally Posted by Beretta

The latest: Prospects brighten for wine in Tenn. groceries » Knoxville News Sentinel

It's good that some of the politicians are starting to speak out on it.

This issue goes way beyond simply wine in grocery stores. Our state alcohol laws need to be completely rethought.

A lot of the laws are designed to protect the liquor distributors, not the liquor stores and "small businesses." In fact, they make it difficult for start up small businesses such as breweries and wineries.

But by all means, Mr. McMahan, keep the status quo. Rather than change, keep paying off the politicians and keep holding the public at large hostage to a biased and antiquated set of laws. Please, do. Because when things finally reach the breaking point, rather than having any sort of compromise, it will completely obliterate the industry that you represent. Because at that point, the public will have zero sympathy for all of the jobs that will be "lost" (they'll be made up for elsewhere).

I would enjoy nothing more than to see the liquor lobby get their asses handed to them. They deserve it. They are scum.

[Beat02]

Originally Posted by nashvols

This issue goes way beyond simply wine in grocery stores. Our state alcohol laws need to be completely rethought.

THIS.

There is no sense or practical purpose behind the laws. It's old, archaic legislation that was passed at the beginning of time... and it's still there.

I feel the same about banning liquor sales on Sunday. If you're religious and it's sinful to buy whiskey on church day, there's an easy solution, don't buy it... There are many non religious people out there, as there are many religious people who aren't offended at the idea of someone buying liquor on a Sunday. Why should the fundamentalist right and their black/white, legalist mindset get the final say?

[nashvols]

Originally Posted by Beat02

THIS.

There is no sense or practical purpose behind the laws. It's old, archaic legislation that was passed at the beginning of time... and it's still there.

I feel the same about banning liquor sales on Sunday. If you're religious and it's sinful to buy whiskey on church day, there's an easy solution, don't buy it... There are many non religious people out there, as there are many religious people who aren't offended at the idea of someone buying liquor on a Sunday. Why should the fundamentalist right and their black/white, legalist mindset get the final say?

Religion plays some role in this, but it's more than even just religion.

Laws were changed to allow the Titans (and now Preds and Grizzlies) to sell beer on Sundays.

But what kills me is the lie that the liquor industry keeps feeding the public, that somehow selling wine in grocery stores will lead to more underage drinking (yes, because assuming kids that actually could pass off a fake ID are going to go for the $10-15 bottle of wine as opposed to the $5 cheepo 6-pack of beer). In fact, I'm always ID'd in grocery stores, and rarely ID'd in liquor stores.

I also find it funny that you can buy a liquor drink in a bar on a Sunday, but you can't buy it at a liquor store. One could argue that the law actually encourages more drinking and driving on Sundays.

But my big issue, as a craft beer enthusiast, is that there is an arbitrary line where some beer (below 6.2% ABV, I believe) is sold in grocery and convenience stores, and all higher ABV beer must be sold in liquor stores. This means a lot of breweries have their beers split between two totally different types of stores. Local breweries, as far as I am aware, must have a distillers license in order to brew high ABV beer (another state fee), and according to a number of brewers, the state's miles of red tape makes it difficult for start-ups. In other words, our laws are very anti-business, not pro business as the liquor lobby would have you believe.

The laws are completely unnecessary, and don't protect the public. In fact, I would argue that they have a negative impact on the public because it keeps certain labels off of our shelves, reducing our selection, and as I said earlier, makes it harder for local craft breweries to thrive.

I can understand if they still want hard liquor to be restricted to certain stores (though I think it should be up to the individual local governments to decide whether they are allowed to be open on Sundays). You should be able to buy all types of beer and wine in the same store.

(It should also be noted that a lot of the fundamentalists you cite as being a roadblock to this legislation would be the first in line to take advantage of the potential changed laws.)

[Beat02]

Originally Posted by nashvols

(It should also be noted that a lot of the fundamentalists you cite as being a roadblock to this legislation would be the first in line to take advantage of the potential changed laws.)

Haha, maybe so...

And I agree with your points, although I don't understand laws that say liquor stores can't be open on Sundays. Again, if people running their stores don't want to service on Sundays or the patrons themselves choose not to visit on Sundays due to moral code, that's fine... But I don't see how "separation of church and state" is at all considered in that kind of legislation. Because aside from the state assuming God doesn't like liquor sales on His holy day (Sunday being a man-selected sabbath day mind you), what kind of practical protection does it serve to anyone?

[nashvols]

Originally Posted by Beat02

Haha, maybe so...

And I agree with your points, although I don't understand laws that say liquor stores can't be open on Sundays. Again, if people running their stores don't want to service on Sundays or the patrons themselves choose not to visit on Sundays due to moral code, that's fine... But I don't see how "separation of church and state" is at all considered in that kind of legislation. Because aside from the state assuming God doesn't like liquor sales on His holy day (Sunday being a man-selected sabbath day mind you), what kind of practical protection does it serve to anyone?

My argument is that beer sales are legal on Sunday, so why should liquor sales be any different? Either can get one drunk if they so choose. Either can be consumed without the purpose of getting drunk. Why the discrepancy? Is one actually "worse" than the other?

[hiknapster]

I don't know how it is now but when I left Mass. you could not buy liquor, wine or beer on Sundays and holidays as well. Sales ended at night, too, around 11 p.m. You couldn't get beer in a convenience store, either. So it is not always a blue/red state thing. New England was founded by the Puritans and its laws reflect that.

[Beat02]

I'm just surprised some of these silly laws still exist.

[Spikett]

Originally Posted by nashvols

Religion plays some role in this, but it's more than even just religion.

Laws were changed to allow the Titans (and now Preds and Grizzlies) to sell beer on Sundays.

But what kills me is the lie that the liquor industry keeps feeding the public, that somehow selling wine in grocery stores will lead to more underage drinking (yes, because assuming kids that actually could pass off a fake ID are going to go for the $10-15 bottle of wine as opposed to the $5 cheepo 6-pack of beer). In fact, I'm always ID'd in grocery stores, and rarely ID'd in liquor stores.

I also find it funny that you can buy a liquor drink in a bar on a Sunday, but you can't buy it at a liquor store. One could argue that the law actually encourages more drinking and driving on Sundays.

But my big issue, as a craft beer enthusiast, is that there is an arbitrary line where some beer (below 6.2% ABV, I believe) is sold in grocery and convenience stores, and all higher ABV beer must be sold in liquor stores. This means a lot of breweries have their beers split between two totally different types of stores. Local breweries, as far as I am aware, must have a distillers license in order to brew high ABV beer (another state fee), and according to a number of brewers, the state's miles of red tape makes it difficult for start-ups. In other words, our laws are very anti-business, not pro business as the liquor lobby would have you believe.

The laws are completely unnecessary, and don't protect the public. In fact, I would argue that they have a negative impact on the public because it keeps certain labels off of our shelves, reducing our selection, and as I said earlier, makes it harder for local craft breweries to thrive.

I can understand if they still want hard liquor to be restricted to certain stores (though I think it should be up to the individual local governments to decide whether they are allowed to be open on Sundays). You should be able to buy all types of beer and wine in the same store.


(It should also be noted that a lot of the fundamentalists you cite as being a roadblock to this legislation would be the first in line to take advantage of the potential changed laws.)

And as both a beer and wine drinker, I've noticed that I always have to show my ID when buying beer, but not when buying wine of hard liquor. I mentioned this to a liquor store clerk to told me that the law required ID for beer but left the liquor stores more discretion on when to ask for ID.

[susiecatsMnTn]

I had no idea the liquor laws were so strange in TN, during all of our visits to your great state we purchsed beer in liquor stores, and as Minnesota residents, we did not notice anything odd at the time. We have seen a lot of Popcorn the moonshiner on you tube video's and understand that moonshining started as a way for people in poorer counties to make money. I see it as a tradition of the area, and hope it thrives for years to come, it is part of the charm of the area to us.

The laws in our state are basically the same, with the towns having the decisions in regards to hours and days the local liquor stores will be open. Our liquor stores sell everything from near beer, strong beer, hard liquor, and recently I see that the addition of Ole Smoky Moonshine ! Which I do plan to try, but would rather get it from someone that makes it in Tennessee, thats the charm of it for us I guess, and like to know that our money is going to the person (s) who make it as it helps them financially. We do not liquor of any kind in our grocery and convenience stores here, with the exception of near beer.

In the town we live in ( Blue Earth, Minnesota Population 3000) The city makes the rules on when their store is open as it is a municipal liquor store, ( open mon-sat 10am to 10pm) but in nearby cities some close at 8pm weeknights, and no liquor stores can be open on Sunday, but bars are and the bars are allowed to sell beer on sundays, this being 3.2% only. We often take a ride to Iowa, 7 miles down the road as they sell on Sunday, strong beer in the convenience stores.

My point? As much as this country has moved forward from its prohibition days, some parts have stayed in the past. I have read several posts in regards to Tennessee resident NOT wanting people from other parts of the country coming in and trying to change things... but.... wouldn't making all of this legal everywhere do just that?
Part of the charm is the old fashioned, or perhaps behind the times some of the small rurals towns are in places like Cocke county where good ole popcorn lived, and many others who simply wanted to make a living in an area with not many businesses to do so.

We hope to move to Tennessee within the next year, after obtaining jobs of course, I hope to come back to the beautiful scenery, friendly people, slow pace of life we saw on last visits. We hope to find a home off the beaten path, I look forward to, would be nice to have a neighbor(s) that makes moonshine, and neighbors who have no issues with having a few beers together. Heck we would definately be the kinda neighbors who would call if we saw people poking around