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Old 06-27-2010, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Long Island
7,695 posts, read 9,103,717 times
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AS A STATE (as a whole) it's more Southern than Western but without a doubt it's both (as well as "Great Plains-ian"). El Paso is very different from Houston. San Antonio strikes me as being mixed.

 
Old 06-27-2010, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX/Chicago, IL/Houston, TX/Washington, DC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Infamous92 View Post
AS A STATE (as a whole) it's more Southern than Western but without a doubt it's both (as well as "Great Plains-ian"). El Paso is very different from Houston. San Antonio strikes me as being mixed.
San Antonio is Tejano culture. Spanish/Mexican/Texan.
 
Old 06-27-2010, 07:34 PM
Status: "Back to work!" (set 2 days ago)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OmShahi View Post
San Antonio is Tejano culture. Spanish/Mexican/Texan.
In a certain undeniable sense, today, yes, it is. And even in the early days. But after the Texas Revolution, San Antonio was settled (like most of west and south Texas) by anglo and black southeasterners and thus has some strong Southern roots and definition. It has been described as "A mix of Old Mexico and the Old South."
 
Old 06-27-2010, 07:46 PM
 
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Texas is Texas.

Mostly every Southern state has a foreign colonial influence (Spanish or French), perhaps some native influences and their ties to the Confederacy. Texas is unique because it's primary "foreign" influence being Spain/Mexico never really went away...so to speak.

Louisiana has lots of Spanish and French culture for example...but you don't have millions of citizens of Paris or Madrid immigrating to Louisiana each year to reinforce those ties. In addition to that, Texas is unique in that while most Southern states have Scots-Irish, Spanish and French as the primary "white immigrants"...Texas had quite a few Germans, Poles and Czechs to give it some northern flavor in Central Texas.

Most people will SAY that Texas is southern but when asked to describe Texas..will describe it in a way that is more consistent with the desert southwest.

In other words, Texas is both (with some Great Plains thrown in for sure). It is the one state whose identity supercedes any region and should be classified as it's own region.
 
Old 06-27-2010, 09:01 PM
Status: "Back to work!" (set 2 days ago)
 
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You make some good articulate points, but to say in reply...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jgn1986 View Post
Texas is Texas.
Of course it is. Nobody denies that!

Quote:
Mostly every Southern state has a foreign colonial influence (Spanish or French), perhaps some native influences and their ties to the Confederacy. Texas is unique because it's primary "foreign" influence being Spain/Mexico never really went away...so to speak.
Texas (and this is a part of Texas' history that if oft not fully studied) was a charter member of the Confederacy and, in fact, went for secession like no other state of the Lower South (except for South Carolina) did.

But to your main point (as I see it), the Spain/Mexico influences on Texas are, yes, definitely, something that differentiates the state (as a whole) from the other ones that formed the Old Confederacy and what might (and often is) considered "the South" today. But it is not the influence of what is typical of the true Southwest. Definitetly not the Rocky Mountain West. After the Texas Revolution, despite the continuonce of "Mexican and Spanish" names, Texas became a Southern state of the United States. Read this sometime, which covers it:

*******************
Edited by Joseph Carleton Wilder
UNIVERSITY OF ARIZONA PRESS
THE SOUTHWEST CENTER
TUCSON

From The Southwest Defined

****************

There should be much less of an argument regarding the Southwest's eastern and western boundaries. Texans may not like it, but there is no convincing or substantial physical and qualified cultural evidence that the Southwest extends eastward beyond the 104th Meridian West. The Llano Estacado clearly belongs to the Great Plains, and the headwaters of the Canadian and Cimarron rivers roll toward the same direction as does the culture of northeast New Mexico face: eastward. Combined with the Southwest's southern boundary coordinate of 29 N., this border would enclose the western two-thirds of the "horn" of Texas, a region which includes El Paso, one of the most "Southwestern" of all Southwestern towns.

******************

Historically, too, no place on the southern border of the region has served more as a gateway to the Southwest than has El Paso, Texas. From its earliest occupation, it has always been recognized as such; indeed, "El Paso" in English means "portal' or "passageway." Moreover, since 1581, when Chamuscado and Rodriguez, the first Spaniards to enter the region by way of the ancient corridor, "The Great River of the North" (El Rio Grande del Norte), to the present day, El Paso, culturally as well as physically, has belonged more with Southwestern cities Albuquerque and Tucson than with Dallas or Houston. However, the Spanish did explore and settle much of southern Texas, and that fact plus close historical ties with Mexico, remains the most legitimate-and only-claim the rest of Texas can present as a credential for membership in "the Southwest." And in many other ways Texas simply doesn't qualify, despite such vestigial Hispanic enclaves as San Antonio and Nacogdoches.

******************

The physiographic Southwest houses cultural traits that give it a unique regional identity. Several very distinctive and conspicuous ethnological features dominate the region. Evidence of prehistoric Amerindians, in particular the "sedentary" people who established "permanent" homes and who enjoyed a high level of prehistoric social organization and food-obtaining technology, are unique to this area. These people developed advanced architectural styles as well as highly refined craftsmanship in pottery, fabrics, basketry, and jewelry. No place else within the United States contains such impressive remnants of prehistoric culture.
In the Southwest can be found the United States' largest number of contemporary Native Americans. Many of these people still live on "reservations" in their traditional pueblos, hogans and wickiups. Moreover, a certain set of well-documented nineteenth- and twentieth-century American Indian linguistic patterns are unique to the region, too. In other words, the physiographic Southwest features a distinct, substantial, and highly visible American Indian population, both prehistoric and contemporary.
No other region within the United States possesses such an old and conspicuous vestige of sixteenth- to nineteenth-century Spanish empire influence than does the Southwest. Dating back to 1539, the impact of Hispanic occupation can be seen throughout the region, particularly in the upper Rio Grande Valley of New Mexico. As part of the area's cultural landscape, a growing Hispano-Mexican population and social presence continues to become increasingly potent and visible
********************************

Current demographic statistics do not provoke any great revision in determining that area which we can call the "Hispanic Southwest." Place names in southern Texas and California suggest a rich and enduring Hispanic heritage in those two states. But following the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, hordes of white Americans rushed into these Hispanic areas of Texas, and, even though white Americans totally dominated these parts of Texas, they continued to use many existing Spanish place names. Most of California's Spanish place names were designated by Anglo real estate developers in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries in an attempt to capitalize commercially on the state's romance that visitors and newcomers to the region found so "quaint" and attractive. A meaningful cultural presence of Hispanic traditions cannot be derived merely from Spanish place names. And other qualifications- primarily physiographic, climatic, and prehistoric-preclude Texas and California from being placed within "the Southwest."


*************************

Quote:
Louisiana has lots of Spanish and French culture for example...but you don't have millions of citizens of Paris or Madrid immigrating to Louisiana each year to reinforce those ties. In addition to that, Texas is unique in that while most Southern states have Scots-Irish, Spanish and French as the primary "white immigrants"...Texas had quite a few Germans, Poles and Czechs to give it some northern flavor in Central Texas.
I don't have the time to get too much into this one tonite, but while I certainly agree Texas' larger cities are becoming bastions of northern influnece, I want to take very much issue with the German/Pole/Check thing-a-ma-***! LOL

I didnt even know it myself until not long ago, but what has to be remembered is that the above "seperate" influences were NOT so to the extent they did not become assimilated into the basic settlement and culture of Texas and, by extention, the South in general.

Letter From Texas: Gott Mit Uns : Chronicles: A Magazine of American Culture

Quote:
Most people will SAY that Texas is southern but when asked to describe Texas..will describe it in a way that is more consistent with the desert southwest.
I agree with this, but while true, it is also largely a product of Hollywood western movies which have imparted a very distorted image of Texas history and culture (hell, they were filmed in Arizona and southern California! LOL). The typical Texan was a NOT a cowboy. He was a small farmer whose living revolved around cotton. The best depiction of Texas in earlier days was (movie wise) Places In the Heart, not Lonesome Dove. The latter may have been more exciting, but it wasnt true Texas as in the sense of typical of how most lived.

Quote:
In other words, Texas is both (with some Great Plains thrown in for sure). It is the one state whose identity supercedes any region and should be classified as it's own region.
Agreed. Texas is Texas. But when it IS put into a region, it belongs to the South. Not the West, the Southwest, nor the Plains states. Most of the Texas has a history and culture that was settled and influenced by the Old South and most things associated. It is DIFFRERENT, of course (as a whole), but still essentially Southern. Most things commonly associated with Texas as unique, are actually Southern in origin and character.
 
Old 06-27-2010, 09:06 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX/Chicago, IL/Houston, TX/Washington, DC
10,180 posts, read 4,402,111 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasReb View Post
In a certain undeniable sense, today, yes, it is. And even in the early days. But after the Texas Revolution, San Antonio was settled (like most of west and south Texas) by anglo and black southeasterners and thus has some strong Southern roots and definition. It has been described as "A mix of Old Mexico and the Old South."
Lol you don't give up till you win, do you?
 
Old 06-27-2010, 09:16 PM
 
Location: Central Austin
2,403 posts, read 3,709,302 times
Reputation: 1942
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgn1986 View Post
Texas is Texas.

Mostly every Southern state has a foreign colonial influence (Spanish or French), perhaps some native influences and their ties to the Confederacy. Texas is unique because it's primary "foreign" influence being Spain/Mexico never really went away...so to speak.

Louisiana has lots of Spanish and French culture for example...but you don't have millions of citizens of Paris or Madrid immigrating to Louisiana each year to reinforce those ties. In addition to that, Texas is unique in that while most Southern states have Scots-Irish, Spanish and French as the primary "white immigrants"...Texas had quite a few Germans, Poles and Czechs to give it some northern flavor in Central Texas.

Most people will SAY that Texas is southern but when asked to describe Texas..will describe it in a way that is more consistent with the desert southwest.

In other words, Texas is both (with some Great Plains thrown in for sure). It is the one state whose identity supercedes any region and should be classified as it's own region.
This. This question has been beaten to death on CD. I think people are overanalyzing it (and I'm just as guilty of it). I've come to the conclusion that it doesn't really matter. Whether you think it's Southern, Western, Southwestern, a mix or whatever doesn't really change the fact that Texas has much more of an identity than any region you put it in could have. No matter where you go in the state, the people will tell you they're Texan first.
 
Old 06-27-2010, 09:20 PM
 
4,449 posts, read 4,629,521 times
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Texas honestly is neither Southern nor Western. The best answer is Texas is Texan. However it is Southern and Western.
 
Old 06-27-2010, 09:23 PM
 
Location: ATX-HOU
5,357 posts, read 2,365,340 times
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Texas is Texas. It encompasses many different cultures and regions.
 
Old 06-27-2010, 09:40 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OmShahi View Post
Anything west of San Antonio is considered desert southwest.
Are you sure you lived in Texas? San Antonio gets 30 inches of precipitation a year. You really don't start hitting arid-looking land until around Bakersfield on I-10 (250 mi west of SA) and Pecos on I-20 (400 mi west of Dallas). Finally, full-fledged desert (roughly ten inches annually) starts at about Van Horn, about 150 miles east of El Paso, 400 mi west of San Antonio, and 480 miles west of Dallas.

If a professor taught that to you, he/she should go into used car sales.
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