Law schools in Texas

[TheEconomist]

Well, I was just trying to educate the OP on the situation. I probably shouldn't have been drawn into the attacks I recieved due to my honest assessment and overview of the law schools in Texas. I did recieve private comments from other Texas lawyers that my comments were spot on. I have enough years between me and law school to not be a cheerleader or a naysayer, just someone who calls it the way it is.

To the OP: Take people's motivations into account when deciding what to believe about a school. That applies to all of them, top tier, bottom tier, chip on the shoulder tier, etc. Students, alumni, and admissions all have major agendas both personal and professional.

GMOOH: SMU is a very good school - not sure why you are so upset.

[getmeoutofhere]

Originally Posted by TheEconomist

GMOOH: SMU is a very good school - not sure why you are so upset.

Just because I disagree with some of what you say doesn't mean I am upset.

[FiddleDeeD]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/business/09law.html

Here is a reality check. If you can go top tier and be in the top of your class, not incur any debt, be the best ad brightest, have family connections, etc, welcome to law school.

If that is not the case, do yourself a favor and research the field. I know plenty of bartenders with law degrees.

[TheEconomist]

Originally Posted by FiddleDeeD

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/business/09law.html

Here is a reality check. If you can go top tier and be in the top of your class, not incur any debt, be the best ad brightest, have family connections, etc, welcome to law school.

If that is not the case, do yourself a favor and research the field. I know plenty of bartenders with law degrees.

This is true to a large degree. You simply must keep law school debt manageable. I would recommend night school to a lot of people for this reason. Without family connections or being in the top 10%, finding a job will be very difficult. It can certainly be done though. I hear lots of stories about young graduates taking a year to find a full time job in their field.

Many employers know the dire job situation for law grads and they capitalize by offering salaries much lower than needed to pay off the debt.

That being said, the story in the NY Times does overstate the case. The subject of the article graduated from one of the numerous law schools in CA that admit just about anyone who can pay. He then moved to the toughest job market in the country in an area saturated with Ivy Leauge degrees. AND, he moved during a horrible recession. This is why I advised not to go to some of the lower ranked schools in Texas. Some of their graduates will not be able to find employment or pay off loans.

You have to know your situation.

[hamiltonpl]

Originally Posted by TheEconomist

Okay, the real rankings as viewed by legal employers in Texas are as follows:

1) UT is the top but employers know they offer major affirmative action. I'm not knocking it, but that's the reality. A caucasion or non-privileged minority must get a much higher LSAT score to get in. A 150 with great recomendations (ie, you interned with a Texas politician) can get you in with a preferred status. For everyone else, you really need a 165 to be competitive. At least, that is how it was around 2003. If you are a minority at any law school and scored high on the LSAT, I would include that on your resume for legal jobs.

UT is the one national law school in Texas that has a high level of prestige and name recognition in any state.

2) SMU, U of H and Baylor are all on the same level which is just a notch below UT. SMU grads dominate Dallas hiring. Out of this group of three schools, U of H grads dominate Houston hiring. Baylor gets around 95% or higher bar passage rates and the school has a much more intensive mock trial program so it produces good litigators and basically lawyers who are less lofty intellectuals than they are good at the basic skills of lawyering. Baylor grads are well regarded but the location in Waco hurts them. UT grads are likewise hurt by the Austin location where the legal market is not as strong. If UT Law was in Houston or Dallas, it would further dominate.

3) South Texas College of Law in Houston is known as producing good litigators (though UH has performed higher some years in mock trial). STCL is known for letting people in with low 150s on the LSAT. However, their alumni are more loyal to hiring their own grads. STCL lawyers work primarily as low to high level litigators (depending on skill) in Houston or work in Houston area local government jobs. STCL doesn't get much hiring outside of Houston though. UH is more respected outside of the city and inside the city as well.

One secret about STCL and UH is that UH will transfer people from STCL who are in the top of the class. Thus, if you have all A's in the easier STCL classrooms, you can transfer to UH for your second year and UH will rank you accordingly for purposes of second year summer clerkships which are extremely lucrative. This is total bull**** for the people who got into UH in their first year and who could have cleaned up in the less academically competitive STCL classrooms, but who didn't get in the top 10% in the more challenging UH classrooms. But, it is a nice trick for someone who did well in STCL to finagle their way into a 6 figure salary upon graduation. The reason UH is more challenging than STCL is because all law schools grade on a curve, so you are competing against better competition.

4) I would not go to a law school in Texas outside of the these mentioned. Maybe Texas Tech. However, you will really struggle getting started in this job market.

As a Texas Lawyer, your comments are correct.

I would add that UT Law is overrated. Its recent graduates have such a superiority chip on their shoulder that they're almost unemployable until they are humbled by opposing counsel from Upstairs College of Law at their first court appearance. After that, they get easier to be around.

I have read a few studies that it is actually better to go to a less-reputable school and graduate in the top 10 percent than go to a top school and graduate in the bottom 50 percent. I'm not sure I agree, though.