Relocation from NYC to Texas: Houston, Dallas, or Austin? (Plano: spring break, restaurant)

[cmacemm]

Originally Posted by homeinatx

This thread would be hilarious if the boosterism weren't so tedious. The OP did not ask which city has the densest neighborhoods or the best big city amenities. He asked which city has a lively downtown - where he will be working, proximity to Nature, an alternative vibe and said that his favorite NYC neighborhoods were the East Village, the lower East Side and Greenpoint, Bklyn. These are not the neighborhoods in New York that have the world class art museums, the huge sports stadiums, the fanciest shopping or restaurants, but are the prime scruffy, hipster, late night, go see a band you have never heard of places. The answer is obviously Austin, which does not mean that Austin is more like NYC, or that Austin is better than Dallas or Houston. I would say for 80% of people Houston or Dallas would be better than Austin- and the relative size of the respective populations bears this out. If the O.P. had said he wanted high-end shopping, professional sports, and yuppie restaurants, and that his favorite NYC neighborhoods were Larchmont and La Rochelle in Westchester, or even Riverdale in the Bronx, the equally obvious answer would be Highland Park or Lakewood in Dallas. If he said his favorite neighborhoods in NYC were beachish communities like Far Rockaway: Kemah or Texas City in Houston would be obvious choices, or business and financial districts that are relatively quiet at night like Wall Street or Midtown in Manhattan, downtown Dallas or Houston would be better recommendations. ALL Texas cities feel very suburban compared to NYC, and if the O.P. is expecting to find something like the lower East Side here, he is in for a very nasty shock. He has been to Uptown Dallas and did not particularly care for it, and then half-witted boosters are suggesting McKinney Avenue, the heart of Uptown. And then just when you think it cannot get more retarded, Addison and Plano!!! Perfectly fine places, but NOTHING like what the O.P. is describing. The very reasons that the resident Austin bashers on this board, who seem to know google better than any of the cities they discuss, hate Austin, because its grungy, not high end enough, drunken bacchanalia etc, are the defining features of the NYC neighborhoods the O.P. likes best!! And eepstein - Cru - really??!!! the Starbucks of winebars - there is one much closer to you in Northwest Austin - from what the O.P. described this is exactly the kind of place he would have zero interest in. For what the O.P. is asking, downtown Austin and adjacent are the closest to what the O.P. has said he wants. He is not you or me. If we are going to helpful, we need to read a little more carefully and not drag a bunch of baggage into the discussion. Texas is interesting enough to have 6 fairly nice cities - unfortunately no fantastic ones for what I like in a city - no one is better than any other one across the board - they all have different strengths and weaknesses. Dallas does Dallas way better than Austin does Dallas. Austin does Austin better than Dallas does Austin. Houston does Houston better than Austin or Dallas and does Austin slightly better than Dallas but not as well as Austin does Austin. Why people have to have narcissistic injuries because one city may have more to offer in terms of the criteria of one potential relocatee is beyond me.

Yeah but you still fail to see our points. DALLAS AND HOUSTON HAVE BIGGER ALTERNATIVE SCENES THAN AUSTIN!!! WE JUST HAVE BIGGER POPULATIONS TO WHERE THEY BLEND IN MORE. AS I SAID, I HAVE LIVED IN AUSTIN. I DIDN'T WANNA BASH ON AUSTIN BUT IT'S A BUNCH OF TALK. YOU MOVE THERE, THINK IT WILL BE GREAT, THEN YOU GET THERE AND REALIZE IT SUCKS. IT'S FULL OF FAKE HIPPIES THAT WEAR TOM'S, DRIVE SUV'S BUT STILL KEEP THEIR FIXED GEARS HANDY FOR THOSE WEEKLY GROUP RIDES. AUSTIN=FAKE

[feconi]

Originally Posted by TurtleCreek80

To clear up some MAJOR mis-informtion by Feconi, the in-town neighborhoods of Dallas are VERY densely populated for a non-Manhattan neighborhood.

Uptown Dallas (75204) - population density is 12,713 per square mile. Diversity is 40% white, 35% Hispanic, 15% black, 5% Asian, 3% Mixed/other. Not excactly lily white, as you claim!

Oak Lawn/ Turtle Creek (75219) - 12,734 density per square mile. 44% white, 30% Hispanic, 5% Asian, 6% black, 15% other/mixed.

M Streets/ Henderson Ave (75206) - 9,729 density per square mile. 53% White, 27% Hispanic, 4% black, 3% Asian, 13% other/mixed

For comparison, Brooklyn Heights is 32,000 per square mile. Forest Hills (Queens) is 28,300 per square mile. Riverdale (Bronx) is 40,000 per square mile. So for the in-town Dallas neighborhoods to be only 1/2 or 1/3 as dense as BK/QN/BX neighborhoods is really pretty dense. They aren't 1/100th as dense as Feconi would like to make you think. And not all NYC neighborhoods are 100,000 people per square mile like the Upper East Side or West Village are.

Htownlove is providing me density figures for entire counties, not just small neighborhoods--of course I know that those figures are not representative of certain parts of the city, nor did I ever make that claim.

Excluding those particular neighborhoods, the city of Dallas is as spread out and suburban as any other sunbelt city. That is precisely my point.

As far as the "whitewashed" comment is concerned--where exactly did you get your statistics? With the rampant boosterism in this thread, not citing a source renders your statistics meaningless. Now, allow me to justify my comment. Type in "Dallas" on this map:

Mapping America ? Census Bureau 2005-9 American Community Survey - NYTimes.com

Herein you can evaluate the racial distribution by census tract all over the city of Dallas, based on 2005-2009 Census Bureau ACS data. Focus in on Uptown and the Turtle Creek area, for example, and note the data you provided strongly conflicts with the map (where you see that nearly all of the tracts in these "densely populated" areas in Uptown are >80% white). Only your figures for Oak Lawn seem to jibe with those in this link.

Oh, but jeez, so much MAJOR misinformation from me! Indeed, you made a valiant effort to clear it up. (Nevermind the utter garbage being spewed by some of our resident Houston/Dallas boosters like artsyguy and Htownlove...)

[feconi]

Originally Posted by artsyguy

The Plano crowd is definitely snootier and more uptight than the Dallas crowd. Plano is an ultra-conservative city. Someone I know just recommended The Ginger Man Pub in Plano.

If I told you we have a Ginger Man here in downtown Austin, would it ruin the experience for you? (With the benefit, of course, that it's not in Plano.)

[feconi]

Originally Posted by eepstein

So, we have been hanging out up at Legacy in Plano. Lately at Cru (this AWESOME wine bar), and a new place called Ringo's Pub that just opened 2-3 months ago.

I suppose you haven't ventured over to the Domain in Austin. It's just like Legacy in Plano, complete with an AWESOME Cru wine bar (there's also another in downtown Austin).

Of course, being that it's in Austin, you're automatically predisposed to hate the Domain, even if it's really just like Legacy.

At least this sheds some light on the kind of expectations you have for nightlife, restaurants, etc.--cookie cutter, fake urban (i.e, suburban), and boring. It's no surprise you love North Dallas like you do.

[homeinatx]

Originally Posted by cmacemm

Yeah but you still fail to see our points. DALLAS AND HOUSTON HAVE BIGGER ALTERNATIVE SCENES THAN AUSTIN!!! WE JUST HAVE BIGGER POPULATIONS TO WHERE THEY BLEND IN MORE. AS I SAID, I HAVE LIVED IN AUSTIN. I DIDN'T WANNA BASH ON AUSTIN BUT IT'S A BUNCH OF TALK. YOU MOVE THERE, THINK IT WILL BE GREAT, THEN YOU GET THERE AND REALIZE IT SUCKS. IT'S FULL OF FAKE HIPPIES THAT WEAR TOM'S, DRIVE SUV'S BUT STILL KEEP THEIR FIXED GEARS HANDY FOR THOSE WEEKLY GROUP RIDES. AUSTIN=FAKE

No, this is mindless bashing. Dallas and Houston may very well have bigger alternative scenes- that is a fair debate, but Austin's is more geographically concentrated. Of course, parts of Austin are fake, so are parts of everywhere, but for what the O.P. wanted: a lively downtown (pretty much rules out Dallas and Houston) with nature in it (ditto - and don't give me White Rock Lake - it is charming, so is Turtle Creek - except for the stupid fountain in it - but not in downtown Dallas, like Shoal Creek, Waller Creek and the northern shore of Town Lake are in downtown Austin. Maybe in a few years, we can see what the Trinity River park looks like? And the bayous in Houston are for the most part glorified drainage ditches, which is a pity). And an alternative scene (Dallas and Houston very much in play).

I am not saying Austin is bigger or better, but just offers the best COMBINATION of what the O.P. says he wants. It seems to that the only satisfactory answer for you is that Austin is fake and terrible, which is not true in this instance. And as for the SUV claim, nearly everyone I know in Central East Austin and a bunch of people downtown don't even own cars. They walk, bike, bus or cab it

Where have you been hanging out?? Round Rock, Avery Ranch, West Lake? Get a clue.

[feconi]

Originally Posted by cmacemm

Austin isn't very big, and outside of the core, it looks like Denton, TX.

As does Dallas--just more run-down, of course.

[cmacemm]

Originally Posted by homeinatx

No, this is mindless bashing. Dallas and Houston may very well have bigger alternative scenes- that is a fair debate, but Austin's is more geographically concentrated. Of course, parts of Austin are fake, so are parts of everywhere, but for what the O.P. wanted: a lively downtown (pretty much rules out Dallas and Houston) with nature in it (ditto - and don't give me White Rock Lake - it is charming, so is Turtle Creek - except for the stupid fountain in it - but not in downtown Dallas, like Shoal Creek, Waller Creek and the northern shore of Town Lake are in downtown Austin. Maybe in a few years, we can see what the Trinity River park looks like? And the bayous in Houston are for the most part glorified drainage ditches, which is a pity). And an alternative scene (Dallas and Houston very much in play).

I am not saying Austin is bigger or better, but just offers the best COMBINATION of what the O.P. says he wants. It seems to that the only satisfactory answer for you is that Austin is fake and terrible, which is not true in this instance. And as for the SUV claim, nearly everyone I know in Central East Austin and a bunch of people downtown don't even own cars. They walk, bike, bus or cab it

Where have you been hanging out?? Round Rock, Avery Ranch, West Lake? Get a clue.

To be honest I think I completely misinterpretted your other post after reading it again and reading my response. I really don't know what I was even arguing. But yes, after living in Austin for 2 years, I absolutely hated living there. LOVE to visit and to hang but HATED living there

[cmacemm]

Originally Posted by feconi

As does Dallas--just more run-down, of course.

hardly....

[feconi]

Originally Posted by HtownLove

It is not NY but to me it certainly is an easier transition than Austin. Dallas and Austin pack in heaps more amenities than Austin does.

The secondary airports in either metro being busier than the Primary airport in Austin speaks volumes about the levels of life styles. lets not get into sports and other areas of entertainment other than Music and drinking.

Wait...wait...where was TurtleCreek80 to clear up this MAJOR bit of misinformation??

BTS Transtats: Total passengers, 2010:

Austin-Bergstrom: 8.3 million
Dallas Love: 7.5 million
Houston Hobby: 8.6 million

Perhaps I'm wrong, but isn't 8.3 > 7.5?

True to form, your conclusion is also totally bogus. The passenger count difference can be attributed almost entirely to the size difference between the cities and also the hub operations in Dallas and Houston.

If anything, Austin has surprisingly high passenger volume compared to other cities its size and its proximity to two major hubs.

[homeinatx]

Originally Posted by feconi

Wait...wait...where was TurtleCreek80 to clear up this MAJOR bit of misinformation??

BTS Transtats: Total passengers, 2010:

Austin-Bergstrom: 8.3 million
Dallas Love: 7.5 million
Houston Hobby: 8.6 million

Perhaps I'm wrong, but isn't 8.3 > 7.5?

True to form, your conclusion is also totally bogus. The passenger count difference can be attributed almost entirely to the size difference between the cities and also the hub operations in Dallas and Houston.

If anything, Austin has surprisingly high passenger volume compared to other cities its size and its proximity to two major hubs.

No, this is silly. Comparing ABIA to the 2 smaller airports in Houston and DFW. What about DFW and IAH? If you need a huge international airport, Houston and DFW are way superior to Austin.