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Old 04-01-2011, 05:31 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
20,958 posts, read 45,212,790 times
Reputation: 24738

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ObamaRama View Post
I have answered the quesion? You just don't like my answer.
Okay, perhaps I missed it. In which post did you answer that specific question?
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Old 04-01-2011, 05:33 PM
 
89 posts, read 202,427 times
Reputation: 92
Though I don't agree with what they smoke, I will defend to the death their right to smoke it.
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Old 04-01-2011, 05:56 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
20,958 posts, read 45,212,790 times
Reputation: 24738
Very timely example of what happens when you vilify what people do - it extends eventually to what they are. I guess we're not as far away from the bad past as we'd like to pretend - we've just changed who it's "okay" to be prejudiced against.

Those of you who are so up in arms to deny rights to smokers across the board - just remember this when it becomes your turn, and don't complain one little bit, because you have will lost any right to do so. Remember, what goes around comes around, and it will show up in your face sooner or later - probably sooner, at the rate we're going.
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Old 04-01-2011, 06:00 PM
 
Location: Up on the moon laughing down on you
18,495 posts, read 32,794,105 times
Reputation: 7752
percentage of Smokers in:

US- 15%
TX- 19%

Harris County- 17%
Bexar County- 18%
Dallas County- 19%
Tarrant County- 19%
Travis County- 19%
Collin County- 13%
Denton County- 13%
Montgomery County 15%
Brazoria County -19%
County Health Rankings

Man, such a low percentage of the population just endangering the lives of the rest of us with their second hand smoke
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Old 04-01-2011, 06:27 PM
 
10,238 posts, read 19,523,976 times
Reputation: 5943
Quote:
Originally Posted by ObamaRama View Post
No secret society. Just the one we currently live in. You know the one that bans smoking in most places already!
Sorry, but that little shuffle dance won't work either.

Let me backtrack just bit. You wrote:

Quote:
Smoking is no longer considered socially acceptable. Many human social behaviors have changed throughtout the years. Once again no one has
the RIGHT to smoke. Society tells us what is permissible and smoking is not
I give you credit for a using "society" as a clever little cover for you own ideology. Which I will be the cotton crop is radical leftist. Not liberal, but far left. I will publicly apologize to you if you will say for the record you are not a Marxist or true socialist.

But anyway, yes, you are right in that social behaviors change over the years. But the difference here is whether or not they are mandated or evolved.

Societal pressures are intrinstic to a free society. They are more effective than any written law. They are those which -- in the realm of smoking -- have led many people to quit, and many businesses to voluntarily ban smoking on their premises. Social pressure, like the use of a boycott, is admirable and a perfectly legitimate to change behavior and business policy.

What you are saying, however, is at odds with the above. Your method is to use force to stamp out such freedom of change under the guise of being concerned about society.

Quote:
Like it or not our society has decided that smoking is not allowed
As as been asked before, when was this done? Are you the spokesman for "society".
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Old 04-01-2011, 06:39 PM
 
10,238 posts, read 19,523,976 times
Reputation: 5943
HT, you know I have a high regard for you and consider you a friend...but....

Quote:
Originally Posted by HtownLove View Post
just because someone is over 18 does not necessarily mean they can make adult decisions. And some of the comments on here prove it. Someone has to make decisions that protect the general public.
Who would that be? Making those decisions, that is? You? Those who think like you? Did you ever think you are opening up a can of worms that could just as easily be used to the opposite effect of what you intend at this moment?

For instance: Right now, smoking is the bad boy. What if it becomes (as it has in certain areas, already), too much fat or salt? There is absolutely NO limits to what can be mandated in the name of "protecting the general public" once the precedent is established.
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Old 04-01-2011, 07:00 PM
 
27 posts, read 23,299 times
Reputation: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasReb View Post
Sorry, but that little shuffle dance won't work either.

Let me backtrack just bit. You wrote:



I give you credit for a using "society" as a clever little cover for you own ideology. Which I will be the cotton crop is radical leftist. Not liberal, but far left. I will publicly apologize to you if you will say for the record you are not a Marxist or true socialist.

But anyway, yes, you are right in that social behaviors change over the years. But the difference here is whether or not they are mandated or evolved.

Societal pressures are intrinstic to a free society. They are more effective than any written law. They are those which -- in the realm of smoking -- have led many people to quit, and many businesses to voluntarily ban smoking on their premises. Social pressure, like the use of a boycott, is admirable and a perfectly legitimate to change behavior and business policy.

What you are saying, however, is at odds with the above. Your method is to use force to stamp out such freedom of change under the guise of being concerned about society.



As as been asked before, when was this done? Are you the spokesman for "society".
If smoking really were socially acceptable we wouldn't be having this discussion.
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Old 04-01-2011, 07:13 PM
 
Location: Up on the moon laughing down on you
18,495 posts, read 32,794,105 times
Reputation: 7752
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasReb View Post
HT, you know I have a high regard for you and consider you a friend...but....
I don't take things personally


Quote:
Who would that be? Making those decisions, that is? You? Those who think like you? Did you ever think you are opening up a can of worms that could just as easily be used to the opposite effect of what you intend at this moment?
the people making the decisions all the time but they will more often than not; enough to not worry about who specifically makes it, and also because there is constant review.

Quote:
For instance: Right now, smoking is the bad boy. What if it becomes (as it has in certain areas, already), too much fat or salt? There is absolutely NO limits to what can be mandated in the name of "protecting the general public" once the precedent is established.
My post was very specific- it is dealing with regulation of something done by people that affects the general public, but even so, the government should regulate fat and sodium content of processed (canned, packaged foods)
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Old 04-01-2011, 07:16 PM
 
Location: Up on the moon laughing down on you
18,495 posts, read 32,794,105 times
Reputation: 7752
Quote:
Originally Posted by ObamaRama View Post
If smoking really were socially acceptable we wouldn't be having this discussion.
oh everyone knows it a disgusting habit, and most smokers just wanna validation of their habit
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Old 04-01-2011, 07:16 PM
 
10,238 posts, read 19,523,976 times
Reputation: 5943
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady View Post
Okay, perhaps I missed it. In which post did you answer that specific question?
They don't and they never will, THL.

Expanding a bit, the type you and I and Derek and AustinRebel and some others are arguing with -- IMHO -- fall into two broad classes:

1. Those who really don't care all that much about smoking per se...but whose Marxist/socialist ideology and/or personal ambition depends upon using it as a convenient stalking horse to stamp out private property rights. Smoking just happens to be the cause celebre' of the moment. They will shamelessly use any cover, any "concern" to get what they want. They are ruthless and cynical. And liars. Not necessarily liars in their personal lives, but that they will advance untruths in the name of their vision. Never under-estimate these folks' capacity for such. And they take advantage of the natiety of:

2.
a). Those who have grown up in a country/environment which leads them to believe they are the center of the universe and, by extension, have not the slightest comprehension of what classical freedom really entails. All they know -- bless their hearts -- is that if something doesn't suit their fancy and that (what else?) government can force compliance. After all, it has always been "all about me."

b). Those with a savior-complex.

c). Those who will stand helpless and clueless when, say, they are not allowed to get their favorite drink/meal/etc, or wear too much perfume, in a private establisment, and wonder why. But, they will whine and wonder: Oh gosh, Smoking was BAD, perfume (or fat or salt or frying or carbonation) is NOT.

They will never see the connection. Useful idiots.
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