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Old 03-26-2011, 02:53 PM
 
Location: Purgatory (A.K.A. Dallas, Texas)
5,007 posts, read 15,362,127 times
Reputation: 2463

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ETex2 View Post
Not a huge deal, but a lot of people here are tired of your never ending negative posts about Dallas. Your location information and even your handle are insults to Dallas and to Texas. Pretty revealing about YOU. Believe me, I'm not alone in feeling that way. Took all of five minutes to get two positive feedbacks on that post.

You know, I've learned that with a positive outlook, a happy home life, and satisfying work, people can be happy almost anywhere they live. That also says quite a bit about you, I think. I feel a bit sorry for anyone who is so negative all the time and so hung up on their situation.

How are my negative feelings towards Dallas in any way relevant to the thread and discussion at hand?

And absolutely ****ing LOL at the idea that you know anything about me based on what can glean here. Grow up.



Speaking of feedback, took even less time to get feedback on my post questioning why the hell it was relevant.
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Old 03-26-2011, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
20,958 posts, read 45,212,790 times
Reputation: 24738
Getting back to the topic at hand, how many of you took the time to contact your legislators about this nonsense of a proposed bill? I did within ten minutes of first reading the thread.
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Old 03-26-2011, 04:16 PM
 
10,238 posts, read 19,523,976 times
Reputation: 5943
Quote:
Originally Posted by getmeoutofhere View Post
How are my negative feelings towards Dallas in any way relevant to the thread and discussion at hand?

And absolutely ****ing LOL at the idea that you know anything about me based on what can glean here. Grow up.

Speaking of feedback, took even less time to get feedback on my post questioning why the hell it was relevant.
I just want to say this on this particular discussion between the two of y'all...

As it is, you and I have had our past issues for exactly the same reasons ETX2 mentions. I have posted the same type questions as to why you are still here, etc...and you have provided the same answers and rejoinders. Right?

So I am not going to be a shrinking violet (that is just not my nature to do so) and pretend I am neutral in it all. I am not and fully agree with his take on the matter. And our (yours and mine) are matters of record. I was one who gave him a rep point, matter of fact. And I was going to state this for the public record as well...just got side-tracked before I could. So I am not hiding where my true feelings are.

With that said though, you and I have DM'd a few times and, by exchanging a bit (and other than your screen name and "mean and surly" outlook, I never had anything against you, anyway), you actually seem a very decent sort. I vehemently disagree with you on a lot of issues...but you are a worthy opponent who does put a lot of thought and research into your position. I can only respect THAT part of it, for sure.

So anyway, to sum it up, I too wonder why you remain in Texas and do not understand why it is only rational to wonder why...given your obvious disdain for so much of the state and its history and culture. Like ETx said, unless you are incarcerated, then there is not much reason to not leave if you really want to.

Ok, in closing I just want to add that I am definitely not trying to "gang up" on you. I am saying nothing that I haven't said both privately and publicly to you before. Hell, far as that goes, I will be the first to stand up with you and say --other than on this particular issue of your feelings for Texas -- I respect your opinions and truly believe you are one of the "good guys", so to speak!
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Old 03-26-2011, 04:17 PM
 
Location: TMI
415 posts, read 447,714 times
Reputation: 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady View Post
(a) I'm not a conservative. That's a lazy, kneejerk assumption to someone disagreeing with you. (Nor am I a liberal, either, as there is, as far as I can see precious little to discern between the two regarding WHICH of my private decisions they want to make for me. You are correct, of course, that laws against smoking, gay marriage, and abortion all fall into the same category, and the only difference at base is which private decisions which side wants to make for us.

(b) I oppose laws banning abortion and gay marriage. None of my business, it's the business of the people intimately involved. Heck, I was on the ramparts during Roe versus Wade (see a. regarding lazy, kneejerk assumptions).

(c) No attempt at all to have it both ways - again, that's your assumption and lazy debate based on nothing more than personal prejudice.
Ok, fine. Does not really matter, though. I already told you that there are a a billion things you can not due in public. I don't think you can start a fire in your garden and smoke up or stink up your neighbor's house. There are regulations for loud music etc. Aren't there regulations for clubs, too? That it can't be louder than XX dB ? Maybe even for public events. Because it can potentially harm people. Smoking in public dosen't just harm people, but the majority of people feels disturbed by it. Just like very loud music. And, I'm sure you can't just go out on the street and shoot randomly around you and play shooting ranch. You could hit somebody. Same thing. It's kind of common sense.
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Old 03-26-2011, 04:17 PM
 
10,238 posts, read 19,523,976 times
Reputation: 5943
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady View Post
Getting back to the topic at hand, how many of you took the time to contact your legislators about this nonsense of a proposed bill? I did within ten minutes of first reading the thread.
You are right THL!
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Old 03-26-2011, 04:28 PM
 
10,238 posts, read 19,523,976 times
Reputation: 5943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallbanger View Post
Ok, fine. Does not really matter, though. I already told you that there are a a billion things you can not due in public. I don't think you can start a fire in your garden and smoke up or stink up your neighbor's house. There are regulations for loud music etc. Aren't there regulations for clubs, too? That it can't be louder than XX dB ? Maybe even for public events. Because it can potentially harm people. Smoking in public dosen't just harm people, but the majority of people feels disturbed by it. Just like very loud music. It's kind of common sense.
No, it isn't common sense because the examples you present as analogous are NOT common-sensical nor applicable.

If I start a fire in my yard, it is a public safety issue because, yes, it could affect my neighbors house. There are regulations against loud music in certain places because they disturb the peace.

And we are NOT talking about smoking in "public" places...unless one wants to intentionally (and it seems many do) blur the distinction between a truly public place (i.e. government building, hospital, etc) and a PRIVATELY owned business which is public ONLY in the sense that people can enter it of their OWN FREE WILL.

BTW -- I am not trying to be obnoxious nor rude by using "CAPS"...only to emphasize a point that many do not seem to get. Or want to. You seem to be one of those who do not want to get it.

If you don't want to be around smoking...then fer gawds sake, just don't go into places where it is known aforehand to be allowed!

Why does this simple concept seem so unreasonable to you?

Last edited by TexasReb; 03-26-2011 at 05:29 PM..
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Old 03-26-2011, 08:44 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
20,958 posts, read 45,212,790 times
Reputation: 24738
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallbanger View Post
Ok, fine. Does not really matter, though. I already told you that there are a a billion things you can not due in public. I don't think you can start a fire in your garden and smoke up or stink up your neighbor's house. There are regulations for loud music etc. Aren't there regulations for clubs, too? That it can't be louder than XX dB ? Maybe even for public events. Because it can potentially harm people. Smoking in public dosen't just harm people, but the majority of people feels disturbed by it. Just like very loud music. And, I'm sure you can't just go out on the street and shoot randomly around you and play shooting ranch. You could hit somebody. Same thing. It's kind of common sense.
If this is, indeed, the case, and those who oppose smoking are absolutely convinced of it, then there is no need at all for legislation banning it. Why? Because those people who feel disturbed by it will vote with their feet and their dollars, if they have any sense at all, and will not patronize the businesses that allow smoking, and the owners of those businesses will either make the decision based on the bottom line to not allow smoking, or the business will fail and go out of business.

However, the very act of supporting legislation to ban smoking in private businesses proves that those who support it do not believe that the majority of people oppose smoking in private businesses. Rather, they fear that without such legislation, people will vote with their dollars and their feet to support smoking being allowed in private businesses, and they absolutely, positively, cannot allow the purchasing public to make its own decisions about what businesses to patronize or not because they're bound to make the wrong decision if left to their own devices, i.e., not forced to make the "right" one.

That pretty much sums it up, regarding smoking bans, prohibition, and any other such similar laws intended to force others who would not make the choices you prefer to make them, will they, nill they.
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Old 03-26-2011, 09:10 PM
 
10,238 posts, read 19,523,976 times
Reputation: 5943
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady View Post
If this is, indeed, the case, and those who oppose smoking are absolutely convinced of it, then there is no need at all for legislation banning it. Why? Because those people who feel disturbed by it will vote with their feet and their dollars, if they have any sense at all, and will not patronize the businesses that allow smoking, and the owners of those businesses will either make the decision based on the bottom line to not allow smoking, or the business will fail and go out of business.

However, the very act of supporting legislation to ban smoking in private businesses proves that those who support it do not believe that the majority of people oppose smoking in private businesses. Rather, they fear that without such legislation, people will vote with their dollars and their feet to support smoking being allowed in private businesses, and they absolutely, positively, cannot allow the purchasing public to make its own decisions about what businesses to patronize or not because they're bound to make the wrong decision if left to their own devices, i.e., not forced to make the "right" one.

That pretty much sums it up, regarding smoking bans, prohibition, and any other such similar laws intended to force others who would not make the choices you prefer to make them, will they, nill they.
And sums it up very well, THL! I can't give you another rep point officially, so here are several!
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Old 03-27-2011, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Plano, Texas
198 posts, read 497,103 times
Reputation: 172
Come on, really?

If you're offended by people smoking, then stay away from places where people can smoke. It's that simple, therefore, I see this as completely unnecessary. Let people make their own choices.
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Old 03-27-2011, 01:59 PM
 
10,238 posts, read 19,523,976 times
Reputation: 5943
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady View Post
When Austin's compromise smoking ordinance was in effect, there were a very small (compared to the overall number) of establishments that jumped through the hoops and paid the hefty fee to become licensed as a smoking-permitted establishment (which included a big sign on the door saying that smoking was allowed). There were many times as many establishments that did NOT allow smoking for someone who did not wish to be exposed to second-hand smoke to patronize. But the anti-smoking, no-one-should-be-allowed-to-do-anything-I-don't-like crowd just couldn't stand that. For some reason, they thought that if smoking was allowed anywhere that EVERY establishment would decide to become a smoking establishment. (And what does that tell you about their confidence that the majority of people would vote with their dollar and not patronize the smoking-allowed establishments?)
The bolded comment triggers a memory of a debate format program I once watched a few years back (seems like it was "Crossfire" on CNN). Anyway, the guy who was presenting the "lets-ban-smoking everywhere" case was pretty much the type that you outline above.

Supercilious, arrogant, condecending, totally humorless with a savior-complex to boot, this guy came across so self righteous that even the "liberal" host who was taking his generic side of the question -- during the final summation -- distanced himself from the personality of the fellow (the same zealot also mentioned in passing married couples should be required to get a government license before having children).

I hasten to addo that I am not saying most who would force bans of the type we are discussing on this thread are of that ilk. But the fellow I watched that evening personified what you describe in Austin.

Actually, this guy was that to the Nth degree. Obviously decended from the stiff-necked New England Puritans (he was from Massachusetts) who are obcessed with stamping out anything which reeks of natural human vices (like the old saying goes: that ilk cant stand the thought that somewhere, somehow, somebody out there, might be having fun!).

His position boiled down to something like this (expressed in a patronizing and deeply righteous monotone): "People need to realize that we are doing this for their own good. Ultimately, the common man will understand that they are intellectually incapable of deciding for themselves."

Gawd. I mean, this guy was so dourly full of himself and his "mission" that the Pope and Mother Teresa might even have been tempted to slap the hell out of him. Or better yet? Just push a pie into his face...

Last edited by TexasReb; 03-27-2011 at 02:17 PM..
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