Texas Trivia (San Antonio, Austin, El Paso: charge, Indians, reputations)

[CptnRn]

Originally Posted by jtur88

Indianola, and they went out into the bay in boats to escape the Indians.

Part of the answer is correct. You have the right bay but wrong location. But its close enough I might as well give the rest to you. Your turn jtur88.

The sack of Linnville

On August 7, 1840, the Indians surrounded the small port of Linnville, Texas, which was the second largest port in the Republic of Texas at the time, and began pillaging the stores and houses. Linnville, which is now a ghost town, was located 3.5 miles northeast of present day Port Lavaca. The Comanches reportedly killed three whites, including customs officer Hugh Oran Watts, who had delayed his escape to retrieve a gold watch at his home (reportedly a family heirloom). After killing Watts, the Comanche captured his wife of only three weeks, the former Juliet Constance, and a black woman and child.

Realizing that the plains Indians would have no experience on water, the townspeople fled prudently from the Comanche raiders to the safety of the water. They were saved by remaining aboard small boats and a schooner captained by William G. Marshall, which was at anchor in the bay. While safe in the water, the refugees witnessed the destruction and looting of their town, unable to do a thing except curse impotently.

For that entire day the Comanches plundered and burned buildings, draping themselves grandly in top hats and stolen linens. They tied feather beds and bolts of cloth to their horses, and dragged them. They herded large numbers of cattle into pens and slaughtered them. One outraged citizen, Judge John Hays, grabbed a gun and waded ashore through the shallow water, and roared at the bemused warriors, but the Indians chose to spare him, believing him mad. He later found that he had waded ashore to face nearly a thousand Indians with an unloaded pistol, as if that one weapon could have made a difference.

[jtur88]

I'll be away from my keyboard for a few days, so I'll let somebody else offer a question.

[joqua]

Originally Posted by jtur88

I'll be away from my keyboard for a few days, so I'll let somebody else offer a question.

I'll take the bait.

This should be an easy one.

For a short period from 1857-1861, this innovative enterprise was of great interest to Americans from coast to coast.

What was this enterprise called, and how did it relate to Texas?

[CptnRn]

Originally Posted by joqua

I'll take the bait.

This should be an easy one.

For a short period from 1857-1861, this innovative enterprise was of great interest to Americans from coast to coast.

What was this enterprise called, and how did it relate to Texas?

Trying to place this period in history, this was prior to the Civil War, slavery was in practice, Texas was a state, the California Gold Rush occurred during this time, as did the Pony Express. Hardin Runnels and Sam Houston were Governors of the State of Texas. It appears that abolition and succession were the hot topics of that time period, but I'm not sure I would call them an enterprise. The telegraph was in common use, the telephone had not been invented yet. The railroad system saw a lot of growth during this time. Stage couches were still in use. Could this be it?

The "Jackass Mail":

Although the Pony Express is often credited with being the first fast mail line across the North American continent to the Pacific coast, it was preceded by the San Antonio-San Diego Mail Line, known as the "Jackass Mail" (for the last 180 miles between Fort Yuma and San Diego accomplished on mule back instead of stagecoach),[16] which ran on a bi-monthly basis, 1500 miles between San Antonio, Texas and San Diego, California, from July 9, 1857 to December 1858; and by the Butterfield Overland Mail of George Chorpenning that predated the Pony Express by nearly three years.

[joqua]

Originally Posted by CptnRn

The "Jackass Mail":

No, nor was it the Pony Express, but you're warm - very warm. Mail was a significant part of the enterprise.

[CptnRn]

Originally Posted by joqua

No, nor was it the Pony Express, but you're warm - very warm. Mail was a significant part of the enterprise.

[joqua]

Originally Posted by CptnRn

Wipe away those tears and re-read that clip quote you posted in your Jackass Mail answer.

PS: You wrote this leading up to your guess: "Stage couches were still in use." I'll bet many a stage coach passenger wished they had a couch in them! Here in Lincoln County NM there is a business that gives stage coach rides to the tourists not far from the old town of Lincoln, NM. They travel over gravel roads on BLM land in the historic Ft. Stanton area. At least they did - not sure if the business is still operating in these harder economic times.

[CptnRn]

Originally Posted by joqua

Wipe away those tears and re-read that clip quote you posted in your Jackass Mail answer.

PS: You wrote this leading up to your guess: "Stage couches were still in use." I'll bet many a stage coach passenger wished they had a couch in them! Here in Lincoln County NM there is a business that gives stage coach rides to the tourists not far from the old town of Lincoln, NM. They travel over gravel roads on BLM land in the historic Ft. Stanton area. At least they did - not sure if the business is still operating in these harder economic times.

So you must be talking about the Butterfield Overland Mail. Roughly a fourth of the route passed through Texas. In addition to carrying the mail, the stagecoaches also provided passenger service.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d3/Butterfield-Overland.gif/800px-Butterfield-Overland.gif (broken link)

The Butterfield Overland Mail Trail [1] was a stagecoach route in the United States, operating from 1857 to 1861.

A correspondent for the New York Herald, Waterman Ormsby, remarked after his 2,812-mile (4,525 km) trek through the western United States to San Francisco on a Butterfield Stagecoach thus: "Had I not just come out over the route, I would be perfectly willing to go back, but I now know what Hell is like. I've just had 24 days of it."[2] Ormsby was the only passenger on the first East-West run of the Butterfield Stage who journeyed the entire distance of the mail route. He sent periodic dispatches to the paper describing his journey.

Yes, I'm sure he wished for a stage couch.

[joqua]

Originally Posted by CptnRn

So you must be talking about the Butterfield Overland Mail.

You got it, but it took a major hint. The stage service was US Government sponsored, as you know, and provided both mail and passenger service, coast to coast (From MO to Calif actually). It pre-dated the later Pony Express service.

Actually the map you posted is but ONE route. There was another "southern route" that crossed more of Texas. Both routes passed through Franklin (now El Paso) at the Pass of the North on the Rio Grande.
More specific information on the routes through Texas can be found here:
Lower Road to Franklin (used from August 1, 1859)

When I was young and adventurous I visited several of the old stagecoach station ruins at what is now Hueco Tanks State Park and to the east at Alamo Mountain, Cornudas Mtns. and of course the one that is located right on today's US-180 at Pine Springs. These were located at natural water sources and because of that, there were many historic and ancient Indian art works in the vicinity of those stations in the form of both pictographs (paintings on rock) and petroglyphs (rock engravings). Looking west from the slopes of Alamo it was possible to still make out the "roadway" of the stage route due to the fact that the greasewood bushes grew more densely in the old wagon tracks for some odd reason.

LOTS of arrowheads, pottery and such laying around too. Now it's illegal to collect such items on public lands but back then it wasn't and many people I knew had extensive collections of the artifacts - including myself. The Alamo Mtn. and Cornudas ruins are on private property and because of public misuse/abuse, now off limits to anyone without permission to visit.

Okay - so what's the next question Cap?

[CptnRn]

Originally Posted by joqua

You got it, but it took a major hint. The stage service was US Government sponsored, as you know, and provided both mail and passenger service, coast to coast (From MO to Calif actually). It pre-dated the later Pony Express service.

Actually the map you posted is but ONE route. There was another "southern route" that crossed more of Texas. Both routes passed through Franklin (now El Paso) at the Pass of the North on the Rio Grande.
More specific information on the routes through Texas can be found here:
Lower Road to Franklin (used from August 1, 1859)

When I was young and adventurous I visited several of the old stagecoach station ruins at what is now Hueco Tanks State Park and to the east at Alamo Mountain, Cornudas Mtns. and of course the one that is located right on today's US-180 at Pine Springs. These were located at natural water sources and because of that, there were many historic and ancient Indian art works in the vicinity of those stations in the form of both pictographs (paintings on rock) and petroglyphs (rock engravings). Looking west from the slopes of Alamo it was possible to still make out the "roadway" of the stage route due to the fact that the greasewood bushes grew more densely in the old wagon tracks for some odd reason.

LOTS of arrowheads, pottery and such laying around too. Now it's illegal to collect such items on public lands but back then it wasn't and many people I knew had extensive collections of the artifacts - including myself. The Alamo Mtn. and Cornudas ruins are on private property and because of public misuse/abuse, now off limits to anyone without permission to visit.

Okay - so what's the next question Cap?

Fun background, it is so much more meaningful when you have seen some of it for yourself.

OK Next Question:

Taking a step back to The sack of Linnville

Following the sack of Linnville... the Comanches headed back to West Texas. The normal Comanche tactic was to ride as fast as possible away from the scene of a victory, but on this occasion they made a slow retreat. The sack of Linnville gave the Rangers time to gather other volunteers and take after the Commanches. Volunteers from Gonzales, Texas under Mathew Caldwell and from Bastrop under Ed Burleson, with all the ranger companies of east and central Texas, moved to intercept the Indians. The militia and rangers caught the raiders, which normally they found impossible, near Lockart, Texas where they engaged them in battle and reported killing about 80 Comanches. The remaining Comanches made their escape.

What was the battle called near Lockhart, Texas? What was the reason the indians made a slow retreat, and in the end allowed so many to escape at the battle?