Why is Waco hated so much? (Dallas, Austin: sales, how much, sales tax)
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My wife's career brought us to Waco 7 years ago from the west coast. Before living in Waco I have lived and worked in the following cities so I have some perspective of how Waco compares to the rest of the US:
Portland
Seattle
Eugene (OR)
Anchorage
Juneau (AK)
Chicago
Washington DC
South Bend (IN)
And my previous career involved a lot of travel to other cities in the US. So as a non-native Texan who lived most of my life elsewhere, I think I can comment on Waco with some perspective.
First, in all honesty I would only recommend Waco to married folks or college students. From all reports, there really isn't that much of an adult singles scene in Waco. Certainly nothing like you'll find in any of the larger metro areas in Texas. I teach at a public HS in Waco and from what I've seen, the younger single teachers here either end up getting married or tend to move on to the DFW area after a few years where the social life is better. Pretty much all the social events and institutions are geared around families with kids. The zoo, the museums, the parks, etc. There's lots here to do if you have a family with kids. Not so much if you are single. Then there's Baylor which is pretty much its own bubble. I suppose Baylor is a decent enough place to attend college. And the big cities are close enough for weekend road trips.
Waco is basically a divided city. There are poor predominantly black and Hispanic areas on the north and east sides of the city that are as run-down and grim as anywhere in Texas. Especially what is called "East Waco" which is actually the north side of town across the Brazos (don't ask about the directions, I still don't get it). Then there are lots of beautiful neighborhoods on the west side along Lake Waco and in the suburbs to the south (Woodway) and northwest (China Spring). There are fancy master-planned communities with community pools, parks, lakes, etc. just like you find in places like Plano, Katy, and Round Rock. And a handful of country clubs. There are also palatial mansions and estates in the hill country west of town that rival any in Texas. And some very beautiful inner-city neighborhoods with old historic houses in Castle Heights and along Austin Avenue. Waco has a ton of "old" money but not so much new money as it's not the sort of place where people tend to come to make their fortune like Dallas or Austin.
In the 7 years that I've been here I've definitely seen improvements so the trajectory is in the right direction. Cameron Park, the Zoo, and downtown have all been markedly improved in the past 7 years. And the area is growing steadily but without the boom/bust cycle seen in places like Arizona and Nevada. But Waco still has a LONG way to go until it is any sort of upscale destination city with unique and attractive shopping and dining.
The restaurant scene is pretty bleak. There are the big chain restaurants on the south side of town that get swamped with diners on the weekends and are pretty empty the rest of the time (Cheddars, Olive Garden, Red Lobster, Pei Wei, On the Border, etc.) There are perhaps hundreds of Mexican and Tex-Mex restaurants throughout Waco. Lots of small BBQ joints. Fried chicken and burger joints everywhere. A number of mediocre Chinese restaurants and Japanese steak houses and a mediocre Thai restaurant. And lots of steak and potatoes type places. And there are a few high-end bistro type restaurants that are nice but pretty uninteresting. There are no middle eastern or Indian restaurants except for one lunch place that serves Lebanese food. There are no upscale Asian restaurants that serve modern Asian food of the sort one finds in say..Seattle. There are no high-end Italian restaurants or even high-end Pizza places. I can make better Pizza at home than any place in Waco serves. There is one good Mexican seafood restaurant (Siete Mares) but no other decent seafood places. And there are no brewpubs. The thing I miss most about Portland is the McMenamin's brewpubs and brewpub theaters that are all over Portland McMenamins - Home Page Frankly, the only reason my wife and I ever go out to eat in Waco is to get away from the kids. We don't do it for the food that's for sure. And we usually end up going to Pei Wei because it's the only decent Asian food in town.
Anyway, if you are middle class and raising kids, then Waco is as good of a place as any. Plenty of inexpensive middle and upper-middle class subdivisions with nice houses and good schools. You have your youth soccer, baseball, swimming, dance, etc. You have lots of nice parks with playgrounds, frisbee golf and lakeside beaches. And plenty of nice golf courses. You have your Home Depot and Bed Bath & Beyond. And you basically live the same suburban life that you'd live in Katy or Plano or Round Rock or Keller except that Waco basically has no traffic so you can get anywhere you want at any time of the day in 10-15 minutes compared to the traffic nightmares elsewhere in Texas's big cities.
Finally one of the best things about Waco is that it is so central to the other big cities. DFW and Austin are each only 1.5 hours away so weekend or evening trips to those cities is easy. I even know people that commute from Waco to those cities which is insane. But it's easy enough to drive up to Fort Worth for an evening concert or dinner out and weekend trips to the zoos, museums, and malls are easy. Houston and San Antonio are each about 3 hours away. Makes for a long day-trip to visit either Houston or San Antonio but can be done. But they are nice weekend excursions. Especially San Antonio. With 3 kids we have now visited just about every major zoo and museum in Texas on weekend trips. And that is a lot of zoos and museums. FYI, Fort Worth has the best zoo, Houston has the best museums, and San Antonio has the best theme parks.
Bottom line, if you are married with kids, Waco is a good a place as any to settle. If you are single and expecting excitement you'll probably find Waco lacking.
My wife's career brought us to Waco 7 years ago from the west coast. Before living in Waco I have lived and worked in the following cities so I have some perspective of how Waco compares to the rest of the US:
Portland
Seattle
Eugene (OR)
Anchorage
Juneau (AK)
Chicago
Washington DC
South Bend (IN)
And my previous career involved a lot of travel to other cities in the US. So as a non-native Texan who lived most of my life elsewhere, I think I can comment on Waco with some perspective.
First, in all honesty I would only recommend Waco to married folks or college students. From all reports, there really isn't that much of an adult singles scene in Waco. Certainly nothing like you'll find in any of the larger metro areas in Texas. I teach at a public HS in Waco and from what I've seen, the younger single teachers here either end up getting married or tend to move on to the DFW area after a few years where the social life is better. Pretty much all the social events and institutions are geared around families with kids. The zoo, the museums, the parks, etc. There's lots here to do if you have a family with kids. Not so much if you are single. Then there's Baylor which is pretty much its own bubble. I suppose Baylor is a decent enough place to attend college. And the big cities are close enough for weekend road trips.
Waco is basically a divided city. There are poor predominantly black and Hispanic areas on the north and east sides of the city that are as run-down and grim as anywhere in Texas. Especially what is called "East Waco" which is actually the north side of town across the Brazos (don't ask about the directions, I still don't get it). Then there are lots of beautiful neighborhoods on the west side along Lake Waco and in the suburbs to the south (Woodway) and northwest (China Spring). There are fancy master-planned communities with community pools, parks, lakes, etc. just like you find in places like Plano, Katy, and Round Rock. And a handful of country clubs. There are also palatial mansions and estates in the hill country west of town that rival any in Texas. And some very beautiful inner-city neighborhoods with old historic houses in Castle Heights and along Austin Avenue. Waco has a ton of "old" money but not so much new money as it's not the sort of place where people tend to come to make their fortune like Dallas or Austin.
In the 7 years that I've been here I've definitely seen improvements so the trajectory is in the right direction. Cameron Park, the Zoo, and downtown have all been markedly improved in the past 7 years. And the area is growing steadily but without the boom/bust cycle seen in places like Arizona and Nevada. But Waco still has a LONG way to go until it is any sort of upscale destination city with unique and attractive shopping and dining.
The restaurant scene is pretty bleak. There are the big chain restaurants on the south side of town that get swamped with diners on the weekends and are pretty empty the rest of the time (Cheddars, Olive Garden, Red Lobster, Pei Wei, On the Border, etc.) There are perhaps hundreds of Mexican and Tex-Mex restaurants throughout Waco. Lots of small BBQ joints. Fried chicken and burger joints everywhere. A number of mediocre Chinese restaurants and Japanese steak houses and a mediocre Thai restaurant. And lots of steak and potatoes type places. And there are a few high-end bistro type restaurants that are nice but pretty uninteresting. There are no middle eastern or Indian restaurants except for one lunch place that serves Lebanese food. There are no upscale Asian restaurants that serve modern Asian food of the sort one finds in say..Seattle. There are no high-end Italian restaurants or even high-end Pizza places. I can make better Pizza at home than any place in Waco serves. There is one good Mexican seafood restaurant (Siete Mares) but no other decent seafood places. And there are no brewpubs. The thing I miss most about Portland is the McMenamin's brewpubs and brewpub theaters that are all over Portland McMenamins - Home Page Frankly, the only reason my wife and I ever go out to eat in Waco is to get away from the kids. We don't do it for the food that's for sure. And we usually end up going to Pei Wei because it's the only decent Asian food in town.
Anyway, if you are middle class and raising kids, then Waco is as good of a place as any. Plenty of inexpensive middle and upper-middle class subdivisions with nice houses and good schools. You have your youth soccer, baseball, swimming, dance, etc. You have lots of nice parks with playgrounds, frisbee golf and lakeside beaches. And plenty of nice golf courses. You have your Home Depot and Bed Bath & Beyond. And you basically live the same suburban life that you'd live in Katy or Plano or Round Rock or Keller except that Waco basically has no traffic so you can get anywhere you want at any time of the day in 10-15 minutes compared to the traffic nightmares elsewhere in Texas's big cities.
Finally one of the best things about Waco is that it is so central to the other big cities. DFW and Austin are each only 1.5 hours away so weekend or evening trips to those cities is easy. I even know people that commute from Waco to those cities which is insane. But it's easy enough to drive up to Fort Worth for an evening concert or dinner out and weekend trips to the zoos, museums, and malls are easy. Houston and San Antonio are each about 3 hours away. Makes for a long day-trip to visit either Houston or San Antonio but can be done. But they are nice weekend excursions. Especially San Antonio. With 3 kids we have now visited just about every major zoo and museum in Texas on weekend trips. And that is a lot of zoos and museums. FYI, Fort Worth has the best zoo, Houston has the best museums, and San Antonio has the best theme parks.
Bottom line, if you are married with kids, Waco is a good a place as any to settle. If you are single and expecting excitement you'll probably find Waco lacking.
You should try Bangkok Royal or Happy Wok. Both are very good imo.
You should try Bangkok Royal or Happy Wok. Both are very good imo.
Given the size of Waco, Bangkok Royale is very good. In a Dallas or Houston, it wouldnt stand out in terms of quality. I still eat there when I go visit my mother because thats her favorite.
Given the size of Waco, Bangkok Royale is very good. In a Dallas or Houston, it wouldnt stand out in terms of quality. I still eat there when I go visit my mother because thats her favorite.
I eat there on occasion. It's OK but nothing impressive. Their new location has horrible acoustics. It is tremendously loud. They need to put down carpeting or acoustic tiles on the walls or something. I guess my standards for Thai food are way too high from too many years of living in Seattle. But Bangkok Royal wouldn't even make the top-100 list for Thai restaurants in Seattle. I just know how good Thai can be so I'm always slightly disappointed when I go there.
I don't think I've ever been to Happy Wok. Have to try it. The best local Chinese food I've found in Waco is Cathay House which is on Wooded Acres just south of Valley Mills. They have some good dishes. But again, after living and dining so many years in Seattle, Portland, and San Francisco, it's hard to get excited about any Asian food in Waco. It probably isn't even the fault of the restaurants. I'm sure that over the years they have adapted their menus to the very bland and un-adventuresome tastes of the Waco restaurant crowd. Everyone goes in wanting Mongolian beef or sweet & sour so that's what they serve.
In my book the best local restaurant in Waco is Siete Mares. But make sure you stop at HEB to pick up a bottle of wine or a 6-pack on the way there because it is BYOB. They have great ceviche and Mexican-style grilled fish. But you gotta have some beer or wine to down it with.
I eat there on occasion. It's OK but nothing impressive. Their new location has horrible acoustics. It is tremendously loud. They need to put down carpeting or acoustic tiles on the walls or something. I guess my standards for Thai food are way too high from too many years of living in Seattle. But Bangkok Royal wouldn't even make the top-100 list for Thai restaurants in Seattle. I just know how good Thai can be so I'm always slightly disappointed when I go there.
Yeah, Dallas has really good Thai food too (as good as anything Ive eaten in LA or any other major city), so Im still spoiled.
theres such a lack of culture in waco, i grew up in waco and thankfully escaped the waco "sinkhole" and now live in boston. what is there to do besides go to the movies and go to nasty chain restaurants that have no creative design for menus. waco isn't a bad city, there are tons others like it out there, but it's boring, and lacking, and as one user said, yes it is a a driveby to austin and dallas. i think waco has potential to build up the downtown area to make it something great, but for now, it's not.
The downtown area is building up, especially compared to the really dismal condition that it was in a few years ago. There is a large apartment building about one year old, mainly with Baylor students, across Washington avenue from the convention center. There are some other new lofts and living areas in the central downtown area and a new Indigo hotel under construction. The convention center is being remodeled (and it seems to be taking forever). Some other buildings that have been vacant for several years are also being remodeled (such as the old Pioneer Savings Building). Baylor, MCC, TSTC, are putting together a new research center (not downtown) to be located in the old General Tire factory location that hopefully can eventually bring better jobs to the city. Waco continues to grow at a slow but steady 1.4 % rate. At least it is growing (95th rate among 276 cities of over 100,000). Waco has a long way to go before it will be viewed very favorably -- especially by young people seeking constant excitement. But I believe that Waco may be in the beginning stages of being on the right track. It is difficult to believe that a city on I35 mid-way between DFW and Austin in the nation's second most populous state and within a Waco-Killeen-Temple region of over 600,000 can go forever without joining in the growth. Somehow, however, even if improvements occur it is going to have to get beyond the stereotypes that are not totally accurate (too religious, too conservative, too poor, nothing to do).
Last edited by Jerryltx; 07-07-2010 at 08:08 PM..
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