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Old 04-25-2011, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Midessa, Texas Home Yangzhou, Jiangsu temporarily
1,507 posts, read 2,704,395 times
Reputation: 857
Quote:
Originally Posted by TT Dave View Post
Because in addtion to doing what's best for us sometimes God answers specific prayers and grants blessings in ways beyond those prayers. I'll give you a concrete example. I know someone who had a diagnosis of terminal cancer. The oncologists gave her no chance to live. She prayed for a miracle and she got one. Even the oncologists were baffled about her survival. They had no medical explanation for her being cured. I have a feeling that increased her confidence in praying for things she needed after that experience...lol. Even for other less serious problems/issues sometimes God answers specific prayers. When you see a change after that specific prayer it tends to increase your confidence in praying again. You sort of develop a trust-faith bond with God. When you display that kind of faith God actually blesses you in other ways, sometimes in ways you never imagined. Those additonal blessings include things that go beyond just "what's best for you". So, in our current example, for those that believe in God and have seen God answer specific prayers and additional blessings for having faith in him, again, not just things that are best for us but things beyond that, it is natural to pray for rain in a drought if you believe in God. You really have to experience what I'm saying to understand it. As a result, if the governor or anyone else wants to call for a period of prayer for rain, wildfires, etc., many believers are more than willing to participate in it, myself included.
So basically your argument is that God is not omnibenevolent. In your example above, God will only save your friend's life if she specifically prays for him to do so, despite the fact that he knows what her situation is and has the power to change it.

As for the drought, God will happily burn down people's homes and destroy their livelihoods unless we specifically ask him not too? That doesn't even sound benevolent, much less omnibenevolent.
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Old 04-25-2011, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Abilene, Texas
8,685 posts, read 4,290,585 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucidus View Post
So basically your argument is that God is not omnibenevolent. In your example above, God will only save your friend's life if she specifically prays for him to do so, despite the fact that he knows what her situation is and has the power to change it.

As for the drought, God will happily burn down people's homes and destroy their livelihoods unless we specifically ask him not too? That doesn't even sound benevolent, much less omnibenevolent.
There are reasons why bad things happen. I've even seen God turn bad things into something good at times, but I'm not going to argue specific theology here. This is not the forum for that. It's pretty obvious that you're trying to stir up a debate or argument with anyone that is a believer in God, so I'm done. If you want to discuss specific theology issues like the one you just stated above, start a thread in the religion section and I will be glad to debate with you further.
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Old 04-25-2011, 12:18 PM
 
758 posts, read 1,341,010 times
Reputation: 327
So did it work?

How's that secession thing working?
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Old 04-25-2011, 12:24 PM
 
Location: Midessa, Texas Home Yangzhou, Jiangsu temporarily
1,507 posts, read 2,704,395 times
Reputation: 857
Quote:
Originally Posted by TT Dave View Post
There are reasons why bad things happen. I've even seen God turn bad things into something good at times, but I'm not going to argue specific theology here. This is not the forum for that. It's pretty obvious that you're trying to stir up a debate or argument with anyone that is a believer in God, so I'm done. If you want to discuss specific theology issues like the one you just stated above, start a thread in the religion section and I will be glad to debate with you further.
It's relevant to this thread, there is no need to go anywhere else. April 22 to 24 were days of prayer for rain in Texas, it doesn't hurt anything to evaluate the effectiveness of that proclamation.
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Old 04-25-2011, 12:24 PM
 
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,310 posts, read 21,057,411 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallbanger View Post
Yes, he has. LOL The emperor has spoken.

Gov. Perry: Pray for rain | Texas Politics | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle

What about those of us who don't pray?

And check out that picture... I'm sure he has one of those hanging in his bedroom, right above his bed. I can so see that.
Well, it worked for Patton.
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Old 04-25-2011, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Midessa, Texas Home Yangzhou, Jiangsu temporarily
1,507 posts, read 2,704,395 times
Reputation: 857
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiled View Post
So did it work?
No.
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Old 04-25-2011, 01:01 PM
 
2,845 posts, read 3,829,211 times
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I would say that it has worked in my part of Texas. Lots of Christians around here.

And for those who do not believe...... keep hoping.
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Old 04-25-2011, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Abilene, Texas
8,685 posts, read 4,290,585 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiled View Post
So did it work?
We got nearly 3 inches of rain here in Abilene yesterday. That's the only measurable rain we've had here in a long time. There were churches all over town praying for rain. In our case, it worked.
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Old 04-25-2011, 02:16 PM
 
179 posts, read 150,757 times
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It is currently raining in Tyler. Thank you, Lord!
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Old 04-25-2011, 03:55 PM
Status: "Semi-retired. working some, taking off some." (set 15 hours ago)
 
9,801 posts, read 10,964,200 times
Reputation: 4993
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucidus View Post
When this thread first started some people expressed a belief in God, and that is fine. And some people expressed a non-belief in God (myself included) and that is fine too, it's exactly what you would expect of thread like this. Then some people started attributing the rain that did happen to their prayers.
LOL Woah..hold on Lucidus...I refer you to the bolded part. Without going back and looking over every single post, I can't think of any posts that anyone declared their prayers were responsible for God causing it to rain. What was advanced was a little bit of the "same medicine" to those who think it completely backward and ridiculous that maybe such was actually possible (that is, prayer working in this instance).

Heck, I certainly don't know whether mine or anyone elses did or not (more on that in a minute)...butI have to admit I thought it kinda "neat" that it sure did start to rain! LOL I think that was all anybody was really making a point of; that the scoffers might have taken it on the chin for once!

Quote:
No big deal people do that all the time, but it did get me to thinking "did their prayers really make it rain?"
Oh balony, Lucidus. Be honest and just come right out and say you have a basic disdain for belief. And that all this flies over our heads. You know dad-gum good and well this thread did not -- in an original sense -- "get you to thinking" about anything you haven't thought of a thousand times before and haven't long-before concluded. You are too intelligent a person for that. C'mon, guy..be real...

What you were really looking for was a chance (as TTDave said directly, and I mentioned as well) to see if you couldn't make Christians/Believers look like fools because none of us are capable of answering every single question as to God and His mind. And how he hears, or doesn't, prayers.

Quote:
That is when I realized that the answer to that question must be no, whether you believe in God or not. So that got me to wondering what the point of praying is then.
And that is why I said earlier, you really got your answer, you just either chose to ignore it or dismissed it. Which is fine too, because naturally we are going to talk past each other because we go from two different premises.

Quote:
It is just a simple question, not a trap. I have read many of your posts and they are usually intelligent and well thought out, so I am a little surprised that you don't have an answer. (other than your non-answer answer)
Thank you and I return the sentiment. However, it is obvious by your later replies to TTDave and his batting back homeruns, you were attempting a trap. You know darn good and well NO answer given to your question is going to be "right" or "logical" in your eyes and mind because you have already concluded God doesn't exist. No matter what anyone said, you were going to come back with something "loaded." A bit like, again, that old classic paradox about God and the heavy rock...

Quote:
However, the fact that you think it is a loaded question makes me think that you do actually have an answer, and it's the same as my answer. That must make you very uncomfortable.
To go back to square one. I DID give you an answer. No, it doesn't make me uncomfortable at all. Because I freely admit I DON'T know the full answer. If I did (know the Mind of God and how He operates and handles prayers), then I could probably just make it rain myself! LOL

I happen to believe in the power of prayer, so at the least I can safely say it sure didn't HURT anything. And it did rain. Can you prove it wasn't an act of God? Believe it or not (no pun intended) most of us who believe do not do so because it is something our parents told us is so, or listened too much to Jerry Falwell. We believe because something or some power in our own lives at some point, some experience, convinced us it is so. Or maybe (and in tandem) read the Bible and found eternal truths and wisdom in there that far eclipses anything Man has ever been able to answer or come up with on this earth in terms of a system of operation.

Anyway, almost suppertime, so better get going. So, if it satisfies as to a concrete answer as to did prayer do any good? Yes, I believe it did. But perhaps not in any way I could ever possibly explain. Which of course, goes back to that the inability to explain God in human terms and the Bar of Rationalism is only proof of a limitation in us, not that He is not there.

Have a good evening and enjoyed the discussion!
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