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Old 07-21-2011, 01:23 PM
 
Location: Richardson, TX
7,803 posts, read 6,690,203 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthmoreAve View Post
Downtowns are more than just the skyline. Its about the vibrancy, activity, etc. DT San Antonio has more people walking on any given street on a random day, than do Dallas or Houston in numerous blocks. So, to me, San Antonio felt like a bigger city, and the only clue that gives that Dallas or Houston are the actual bigger metros is the fact that they have 700+ towers sprouting from their downtowns.

Trust me, I think most of us would rather have a downtown like San Antonio where people are acutally out and about, where its a destination, as opposed to Houston's or Dallas' concentration of towers that barely ooze activity and life. Not saying that it will forever be this way, but for now, downtown San Antonio is the best downtown in the state, by far. Although, there are some honorable mentions.
Oh sure, bring San Antonio into the discussion. LOL
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Old 07-21-2011, 01:27 PM
k_s
 
Location: Texas
408 posts, read 483,435 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HtownLove View Post
you mean the Riverwalk???

Downtown SA is horribly unimpressive for a metro its size
I agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthmoreAve View Post
Downtowns are more than just the skyline. Its about the vibrancy, activity, etc. DT San Antonio has more people walking on any given street on a random day, than do Dallas or Houston in numerous blocks. So, to me, San Antonio felt like a bigger city, and the only clue that gives that Dallas or Houston are the actual bigger metros is the fact that they have 700+ towers sprouting from their downtowns.

Trust me, I think most of us would rather have a downtown like San Antonio where people are acutally out and about, where its a destination, as opposed to Houston's or Dallas' concentration of towers that barely ooze activity and life. Not saying that it will forever be this way, but for now, downtown San Antonio is the best downtown in the state, by far. Although, there are some honorable mentions.
I would take Uptown Dallas or Uptown/Midtown Houston over DT SATX any day. DT SATX is nothing more than a tourist haven and it feels that way when walking around.

People walking around taking pictures of the Alamo =/= a vibrant nightlife, in my opinion. If the city was built for its residents (a la Fort Worth DT/Sundance Square), I might be singing a different song.
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Old 07-21-2011, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Up on the moon laughing down on you
18,516 posts, read 16,576,034 times
Reputation: 7270
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthmoreAve View Post
Downtowns are more than just the skyline. Its about the vibrancy, activity, etc. DT San Antonio has more people walking on any given street on a random day, than do Dallas or Houston in numerous blocks.
Have you not been to the Tunnels downtown?? There are loads of PROFESSIONALS roaming the underground streets not silly tourists

Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthmoreAve View Post
So, to me, San Antonio felt like a bigger city, and the only clue that gives that Dallas or Houston are the actual bigger metros is the fact that they have 700+ towers sprouting from their downtowns.
that to me is the funniest thing I have heard in a while. Do you visit the smaller Texas Towns teaming with tourists (such as Gruene) to be the biggest cities in Texas?? sorry, that just sounds silly to me

Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthmoreAve View Post
Trust me, I think most of us would rather have a downtown like San Antonio where people are acutally out and about, where its a destination, as opposed to Houston's or Dallas' concentration of towers that barely ooze activity and life. Not saying that it will forever be this way, but for now, downtown San Antonio is the best downtown in the state, by far. Although, there are some honorable mentions.
sorry, I like Houston and Dallas's downtown a whole heap more than SA downtown. THIS IS FROM SOMEONE WHO LIVED THERE. The Riverwalk is a nice addition, but the downtown itself is a sorry excuse for a downtown for a Metro of 2+ Million and the soon to be 6th largest city in the US


No way would I think this:



is bigger than these two:





people visit the Riverwalk and the Alamo and that is all of Downtown. Those are just touristy parts. the actual business areas of downtown SA is crappy.
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Old 07-21-2011, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Up on the moon laughing down on you
18,516 posts, read 16,576,034 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k_s View Post
I agree.

I would take Uptown Dallas or Uptown/Midtown Houston over DT SATX any day. DT SATX is nothing more than a tourist haven and it feels that way when walking around.

People walking around taking pictures of the Alamo =/= a vibrant nightlife, in my opinion. If the city was built for its residents (a la Fort Worth DT/Sundance Square), I might be singing a different song.
have you walked around DT SA on any given week day? It is empty. I lived in SA for 4 years, went to DT SA to do bank work and stuff and 95% of the time the streets were bare. The activity in Houston is much much much busier between 9 to 5 than in SA. You can barely walk on those underground streets sometimes because of the flood of people pushing and shoving.

I dunno why Southmore is confusing tourists with actual residents and resident activity. I guess the Magic Kingdom is Big City USA
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Old 07-21-2011, 03:15 PM
k_s
 
Location: Texas
408 posts, read 483,435 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HtownLove View Post
LMAO. That building really stands out coming in west on I10
I almost didn't believe my friend when he told me it was a hospital lol Very interesting building
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Old 07-21-2011, 03:17 PM
k_s
 
Location: Texas
408 posts, read 483,435 times
Reputation: 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by HtownLove View Post
have you walked around DT SA on any given week day? It is empty. I lived in SA for 4 years, went to DT SA to do bank work and stuff and 95% of the time the streets were bare. The activity in Houston is much much much busier between 9 to 5 than in SA. You can barely walk on those underground streets sometimes because of the flood of people pushing and shoving.

I dunno why Southmore is confusing tourists with actual residents and resident activity. I guess the Magic Kingdom is Big City USA
It's been hit-or-miss when I've gone.

When I'm just walking around, I don't see much. When I went to check out the attractions, it was packed.

Outside of the Riverwalk, there was not much going on in the evenings.

I think SATX has plenty of history and is a great city, but I wouldn't put its DT on a pedestal.
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Old 07-21-2011, 03:18 PM
 
Location: ITL (Houston)
8,969 posts, read 8,723,881 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthmoreAve View Post
After having visited Dallas firsthand, I've got to say, I was impressed.

The skyline is great, and I like the fact that they don't have the ordinances that I believe Houston has in place. For example, there are various mega billboards on sides of buildings that just make Dallas seem bigger. I mean, some people will argue that that is bad, but we look at Toronto, London, NYC with their big commercial squares with huge advertisements, and to see a tiny slice of that in Texas was pretty cool. As much as I tried to not think nothing much of the Arts District, the startchitects collection their was stellar. Went inside the Winspear Opera House and the Wiley Theater. Once the park opens up, and the new Museum Tower gets built, this is going to be one of the best areas in the entire state. Did it feel artificial? yes, but as much as we knock on Dallas, nice is nice, no matter "which way you slice it". Also visited the Nasher, which was ok, nothing out of the ordinary.
I use to think the same thing when I first moved to DFW. Those advertisements on the side of buildings in Dallas seemed so cool. Houston has ordinances against that, IIRC, and there are only a couple ads on buildings in Dallas with one advertising the development its on (Mockingbird Station). It didn't make Dallas bigger to me, because it's not like they are everywhere. Just a different touch. Do agree on the Arts District. It's a really nice area and the deck park will add to it.

Quote:
The skyline finally showed signs of life and expansion, something Houston, can't lately say. In the future, I could really see uptown and downtown meshing together, and if that were to happen, I don't think Houston could compete, although overall, I would still consider Houston's 3 major districts much more impressive. Also, my opinion about the Calatrave bridge didn't change, that was just too much of a cry of "I am a major city with an awesome bridge" for me, IMO. The bridge goes over a freakin' ditch compared to other cities with their signature bridges, so it definitely felt forced. But like I said, overall, job well done, Dallas( and Ft. Worth.) I still prefer Houston, but now I realize, that a little more vision is what Houston needs before it gets left behind.
The reason why Dallas' skyline shows life is because of zoning. It's highrise zoning is around Uptown. Houston has new towers popping up all over the Inner Loop, especially the TMC area. From many views, Uptown and Downtown Dallas are connected already. Only a freeway separates them. Don't think Downtown Houston alone could compete with two districts, but add in the TMC, Uptown, and Greenway, and it isn't even close.

Do agree that Houston needs more vision. I like how they are connecting the city with trails on some of the bayous and returning them back into their natural state. Don't think Houston will get left behind though, unless the rail doesn't get built.
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Old 07-21-2011, 03:58 PM
 
Location: Up on the moon laughing down on you
18,516 posts, read 16,576,034 times
Reputation: 7270
Quote:
Originally Posted by k_s View Post
Outside of the Riverwalk, there was not much going on in the evenings.

I think SATX has plenty of history and is a great city, but I wouldn't put its DT on a pedestal.
Exactly. I hate when people go spend a night on the Riverwalk and comeback thinking man, this is the best downtown on Earth. They went to an attraction, they didn't explore the downtown.


anyway, I do not want to imply that Dallas and Houston has these fantastic and lively downtowns, but I would take either one way before Downtown SA.

The Riverwalk is a tourist attraction and when I lived in SA I rarely went there. When I want to go out for dinner I don't want to go looking for places with empty tables and avoiding swarms of tourists. I was impressed with it as a visitor to SA, but as a resident I dreaded going there.

I expect general residents of Vegas don't eat at the Bellagio everyday and most likely avoid the strip during peak times
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Old 07-21-2011, 05:49 PM
 
Location: Pasadena
889 posts, read 1,316,300 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trae713 View Post
I use to think the same thing when I first moved to DFW. Those advertisements on the side of buildings in Dallas seemed so cool. Houston has ordinances against that, IIRC, and there are only a couple ads on buildings in Dallas with one advertising the development its on (Mockingbird Station). It didn't make Dallas bigger to me, because it's not like they are everywhere. Just a different touch. Do agree on the Arts District. It's a really nice area and the deck park will add to it.

The reason why Dallas' skyline shows life is because of zoning. It's highrise zoning is around Uptown. Houston has new towers popping up all over the Inner Loop, especially the TMC area. From many views, Uptown and Downtown Dallas are connected already. Only a freeway separates them. Don't think Downtown Houston alone could compete with two districts, but add in the TMC, Uptown, and Greenway, and it isn't even close.

Do agree that Houston needs more vision. I like how they are connecting the city with trails on some of the bayous and returning them back into their natural state. Don't think Houston will get left behind though, unless the rail doesn't get built.
Ok, this is the one reply that is worth replying to, all the other people are getting way too high on whatever homer drug their on. But before I do adress this post, just some quick replies to the other ones.

Htown, first of all, I visited DT San Antonio on a WEEKDAY MORNING/AFTERNOON, it wasn't Times Square but compared to Houston and Dallas, which I visited and have been on the exact same times, it could've been, and yes that was an exageration. And I didn't just do the Riverwalk, secondly I didn't even visit the Alamo, or the plaza so its not like I did the whole touristy thing, I strolled around, and then visited Lake|Flato Architects. Moreover, I am very much aware of the activity that goes unknown in Houston's DT tunnels, and if you gave a second's thought to it, you'd realize that tourists are much more better to have on your streets, because they stay there PAST 5/6 PM, tend to spend more money, and add to the vibrancy, because they aren't in a rush to get back to their office, etc. And trust me, there were actual residents, I could see people walking their dogs, etc. Also, I already clarified that San Antonio felt like a bigger city, until you look up, and miss that the tall gleaming office towers aren't there like in Houston and Dallas. Outside of DT, of course Houston has more to offer, unlike San Antonio, sans the missions, etc. Do you read my posts at all, I already said that Houstons skyline(s) put SA to shame, as it should, im talking about STREET LEVEL ACTIVITY.

And K_s, Im not putting it on a pedestal, Im not saying San Antonio is on the same level as SF or Chicago or Philly, but it definetely has the activity that we don't. period, wether it was 100% tourists, it doesnt matter, point it, people were out.

To Trae,
Oh, I was referring to DT Houston's skyline not showing any life. I know all about TMC's growth, and the planned projects in Uptown. I would add though, that TMC's construction activity does appear to be stabilizing, but all signs show that it will expand to the south, and the recently completed MD Anderson building appears to anchor any new development that oozes that direction. Hopefully that 2nd convention center hotel actually pans out, and development should be spurred once the new Dynamo stadium gets built. But for now, DT Houston has no additions being built, and DT Dallas was like that for the past few years, so I know all this is just new for Dallas, it hasn't been ongoing.

Like I said, Houston overall would still have the upper hand, but some people just consider the main skyline, and once DT and UT Dallas get built up, DT Houston won't compete. I too know all about the various city centers in Houston.

Yes, I saw a presentation for the Buffalo Bayou Masterplan, but only a segment of it is about to go in construction, the ideal and cool part of it right now is only conceptual, but Houston unfortunately isnt one to build just to build, so I doubt that will happen in the next decade....And thats the problem, the rail keeps getting pushed back, but think about it, if we can't get inner city rail built smoothly, how do we expect to get mass rail to happen with commuter rail lines. That cool intermodel station north of UH-Downtown has already been scrapped.
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Old 07-21-2011, 06:08 PM
 
Location: ITL (Houston)
8,969 posts, read 8,723,881 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthmoreAve View Post
To Trae,
Oh, I was referring to DT Houston's skyline not showing any life. I know all about TMC's growth, and the planned projects in Uptown. I would add though, that TMC's construction activity does appear to be stabilizing, but all signs show that it will expand to the south, and the recently completed MD Anderson building appears to anchor any new development that oozes that direction. Hopefully that 2nd convention center hotel actually pans out, and development should be spurred once the new Dynamo stadium gets built. But for now, DT Houston has no additions being built, and DT Dallas was like that for the past few years, so I know all this is just new for Dallas, it hasn't been ongoing.

Like I said, Houston overall would still have the upper hand, but some people just consider the main skyline, and once DT and UT Dallas get built up, DT Houston won't compete. I too know all about the various city centers in Houston.
Downtown Houston just had a 600+ ft. building top out in MainPlace (well, BG Group Place tower now). You have Hess Tower over by Discovery Green that was recently completed also. Not to mention the Embassy Suites (which has been getting very good business) and One Park Place tower. In fact, Dallas (all of DFW for that matter) doesn't even have a single tower built in the last boom taller than BG Group Place. And there is more in the pipeline for Downtown Houston (like 5 Allen Center and Chevron's new site at the old YMCA building). Both cities have new towers going up. It's just that Dallas' is concentrated in one area. You can't escape the other skylines in Houston though, when you are in and around the Inner Loop. When I was driving friends from DFW around Houston, they were getting confused as to what skyline was Downtown Houston, asking "didn't we just come from here" when going from Downtown to Uptown.

Quote:
Yes, I saw a presentation for the Buffalo Bayou Masterplan, but only a segment of it is about to go in construction, the ideal and cool part of it right now is only conceptual, but Houston unfortunately isnt one to build just to build, so I doubt that will happen in the next decade....And thats the problem, the rail keeps getting pushed back, but think about it, if we can't get inner city rail built smoothly, how do we expect to get mass rail to happen with commuter rail lines. That cool intermodel station north of UH-Downtown has already been scrapped.
Some of the Buffalo Bayou plan is already completed (the new pedestrian bridges near Memorial and Allen Parkway, south of I-10). And they recently got big donations for more bridges/improvements. Brays Bayou over in the Third Ward has had its concrete walls taken down in favor of turning it back into its natural state as well. Construction has been well under way there. And the tracks have begun being places along the SE Line route already, so the rail expansion is well underway. Just got to hope our politicians and the NIMBYs don't screw the city over with the University Line. The Uptown Line can't happen without the University Line, so it's double the hurt. And like many things this recession, the Intermodal was scrapped. TBH, they could find a better location for that, where more rail/bus lines could be connected.
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