Is Texas a Southern or Western state? (Houston, San Antonio: high school, restaurants)

[anonymous]

Originally Posted by jfre81

I lived in North Carolina and they generally do not consider Texas *The South*

They seem to think the South doesn't go west of the Mississippi.

Hmm.. I live in North Carolina, and I consider Texas "the south". I'm no expert, though. I've only been a few times, but I've hit San Antonio, Houston, Dallas-FW, Austin, and driven around quite a bit inbetween. There were a few differences. Y'all wear stetson hats while driving down the road, which I found odd. Y'all have funny brands (Lone Star Beer, Luby's, Shamrock Stations). People found it strange that we wore flip-flops, and leather seemed much more popular. But the people, their accents, and their mannerisms seemed southern to me.

Originally Posted by Cathy4017

WTX may have idioms in common with MS and the rest of the south, but in terms of accent, very little.

To my ear, WT sounds nothing like what we think of as typical "southern" accents.

By typical southern, I am referring to LA, MS, AL, GA, TN....and again, Texas (other than the extreme eastern part) is not included in that region.

I'm not sure what a typical southern accent is. I have a lowcountry South Carolina accent. I don't sound like people do in Atlanta, Georgia, or western North Carolina. Nor do those people talk like they're from the Gulf Coast, or from the Arkansas hills.

I'm not certain what the West Texas accent sounds like, but I know that I can't tell the difference between someone from Austin, TX and someone from north Mississippi. I think the point people were trying to make is, just because east Texas and west Texas don't sound alike, doesn't mean that east Texas is southern and west Texas isn't.

[blueskies49]

And there are cowboys in Alabama, Florida, etc., but the image in Texas remains large.

Ripley, you said, "Geographically SouthCentral, but big enough to be both West and South." I totally agree but you also mentioned that Texas has strong midwestern influences. I don't see that unless you mean the numbers of people who have moved here from that part of the country?

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by anonymous

Hmm.. I live in North Carolina, and I consider Texas "the south". I'm no expert, though. I've only been a few times, but I've hit San Antonio, Houston, Dallas-FW, Austin, and driven around quite a bit inbetween. There were a few differences. Y'all wear stetson hats while driving down the road, which I found odd. Y'all have funny brands (Lone Star Beer, Luby's, Shamrock Stations). People found it strange that we wore flip-flops, and leather seemed much more popular. But the people, their accents, and their mannerisms seemed southern to me.



I'm not sure what a typical southern accent is. I have a lowcountry South Carolina accent. I don't sound like people do in Atlanta, Georgia, or western North Carolina. Nor do those people talk like they're from the Gulf Coast, or from the Arkansas hills.

I'm not certain what the West Texas accent sounds like, but I know that I can't tell the difference between someone from Austin, TX and someone from north Mississippi. I think the point people were trying to make is, just because east Texas and west Texas don't sound alike, doesn't mean that east Texas is southern and west Texas isn't.

Thanks for some excellent observations and input, NCN. The perspective of someone not from Texas is always very interesting and gives another take on it all. Your own observations back up something that I have heard quite a few other people from eastern parts of the South say as well after visiting Texas and really exploring the place. That is, not just the big cities, but "off the beaten path" and seeing the real Texas. Which is, often in spite of initial expectations, that, as you said, the mannerisms, speech, outlook, etc is really not all that dissimilar to their own states.

Of course, as you noted too, there ARE some differences (in addition to what you listed, the topography of the land in western parts is another that comes to mind). But yet, there are many MORE things in common. This is something I almost never hear from people who visit from the Western or desert SW states say.

Further, your remarks about the wide variations in what is broadly known as Southern American English is spot on. I am sure you've seen it, but this site on Wikipedia is one of the best researched on the topic I have ever seen.

Southern American English - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by blueskies49

And there are cowboys in Alabama, Florida, etc., but the image in Texas remains large.

Ripley, you said, "Geographically SouthCentral, but big enough to be both West and South." I totally agree but you also mentioned that Texas has strong midwestern influences. I don't see that unless you mean the numbers of people who have moved here from that part of the country?

I agree with this as well. Other than the small part of the Texas panhandle north of Amarillo, I don't see much if any truly "midwestern" influence in Texas. Not unless it has to do with, as you said Blueskies, in places like the metroplex where there are large numbers of northern transplants. In that case, there is something to it.

Or perhaps parts of north and west Texas where the physical landscape is a lot of prarie and plains typical of Kansas, Nebraska, etc. But that is a geographical and not cultural feature.

[Cathy4017]

Originally Posted by ripley

I'm really not picking on you, I'm just using the statements as proof for what I have been trying to say:

We can't say, "It is not in the South ... BUT."

Texas is in the South, and it is in the West, and there are strong Midwest influences. There is also heavy Mexican and Native American heritage written all over many parts of the state.

*We are a region of our own. We have a diverse culture and our makeup has been influenced by many, many groups of people from all over the world.*

That wonderful mixture is what makes Texas what it is.

Just like our stories and the old saying, "Everything is bigger in Texas" ... we're too big to fit into just one geographical region.

Geographically SouthCentral, but big enough to be both West and South.

I know, LOL!!!

And all of that is what makes Texas so much fun.

I'm glad I'm still very close by....

[solytaire]

[ I think Texas alone has as much border with Mexico as all the other Southwestern states combined.

While this is likely true, the same thing has been said of the TX gulf coast in relation to other Gulf Coast states. Florida notwithstanding, as it is essentially a peninsula.

[solytaire]

Originally Posted by Cathy4017

Yes, because Elysian Fields is almost out of the state....and almost in LA.

Just like New Mexi....Oh, excuse me, I mean El Paso/West Texas. No wonder they dont have accents, they're practically in NM.

[Cathy4017]

Originally Posted by anonymous

Hmm.. I live in North Carolina, and I consider Texas "the south". I'm no expert, though. I've only been a few times, but I've hit San Antonio, Houston, Dallas-FW, Austin, and driven around quite a bit inbetween. There were a few differences. Y'all wear stetson hats while driving down the road, which I found odd. Y'all have funny brands (Lone Star Beer, Luby's, Shamrock Stations). People found it strange that we wore flip-flops, and leather seemed much more popular. But the people, their accents, and their mannerisms seemed southern to me.



I'm not sure what a typical southern accent is. I have a lowcountry South Carolina accent. I don't sound like people do in Atlanta, Georgia, or western North Carolina. Nor do those people talk like they're from the Gulf Coast, or from the Arkansas hills.

I'm not certain what the West Texas accent sounds like, but I know that I can't tell the difference between someone from Austin, TX and someone from north Mississippi. I think the point people were trying to make is, just because east Texas and west Texas don't sound alike, doesn't mean that east Texas is southern and west Texas isn't.

Wow. That's really hard to believe, but....it would be glaringly apparent to me, provided that each person was a native of each place, and had grown up there. When you have people who have moved around a lot, and lived in several different places, it is more difficult to discern.

The entire time I lived in MS...the only West Texas accents I heard were those with whom I worked (several of us from WT were on the same jobsite)....and the distinctly southern accents of people from MS, AL and GA who were also at the site....no comparison in the accents, especially MS.

[ripley]

Originally Posted by blueskies49

And there are cowboys in Alabama, Florida, etc., but the image in Texas remains large.

Ripley, you said, "Geographically SouthCentral, but big enough to be both West and South." I totally agree but you also mentioned that Texas has strong midwestern influences. I don't see that unless you mean the numbers of people who have moved here from that part of the country?

That is what I meant. When visiting various friends in DFW ... it seems many of the neighbors have moved in from Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, etc.

Also, a strange accent zapper often takes hold when students go off to college in DFW or even at TTech ... they come back home actually pronouncing the letter "i" as it was intended. What is this world coming to?

[solytaire]

I actually dont get the Midwestern influence reference either. Ive never met anyone similar to a Midwesterner outside of major metropolitan areas. And I went to college in Southern Missouri (many of them sounded nothing like the Texas natives I grew up around). Ive noticed though that due to the consortium of transients inundating Houston (my current place of residency), most Houstonians have absolutely NO discernable accent.

I always say anything west of the Mississippi is the Southeast, anything west of Texas is the Southwest and all points in between are in the geographic south like it or not. I spoke with a a co worker from San Antonio or Austin (I can remember which) but she was adamant that TX was anything BUT Southern. This was unfathomable to me, but after further contemplation I arrived at the conclusion that the area of TX from which she hails, just may NOT have many southern influences. And if they do, many of its natives who feel like she did, may simply work fervently to alleviate from their speech patterns, lifestyle, and disposition, any resemblance to a southern region at all. But in general I think TX is exactly what the literal South SHOULD be. A place where the Southeast and Southwest align both culturally and geographically.