Should Texas Law Permit Corporal Punishment in Schools?

[Nairobi]

Originally Posted by TexasReb

Yes, it could be a huge inconvenience. But why the premise that all the convenience should be that of the parent to change the policy of a whole district just because they don't like it?



To some extent I can go along with this. Fine. But if they don't want their child spanked? Then they should have to be bound to the next level. That is, a 5 day (or whatever) suspension and/or placement in an alternative setting.



That is a good question. Texas law (which I fully support) allows any district the option...but some have either "outlawed it" or pretty much put it into the closet.

That's perfectly fine with me. Except, at what point does that come? Have all of the other disciplinary measures been exhausted (ISS/detention, trip to the principal's office, etc.)?

Also, I can't imagine CP working at the high school level. Chances are, if they're the type of teenager who would need to be spanked at school, they're also likely the kind of kid who would fight the teacher back. That situation could quickly turn ugly.

When you think about all of the "what ifs" of the whole issue, it's pretty easy to see why many districts simply don't allow it.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by Nairobi

That's perfectly fine with me. Except, at what point does that come? Have all of the other disciplinary measures been exhausted (ISS/detention, trip to the principal's office, etc.)?

Also, I can't imagine CP working at the high school level. Chances are, if they're the type of teenager who would need to be spanked at school, they're also likely the kind of kid who would fight the teacher back. That situation could quickly turn ugly.

When you think about all of the "what ifs" of the whole issue, it's pretty easy to see why many districts simply don't allow it.

You bring up some good points, Nairobi, and I can agree -- at least to a goodly extent -- with most of them.

My basic position, again, is that Texas law SHOULD back up the ultimate right of the district itself to make their own policies as concerns corporal punishment. And from that point, that each administrator decides how/if they want to administer it within their own schools.

For instance, in my district, some schools allow it, some don't. No problem. It has become virtually non-existent at the high school level. And, partly, because of the reasons you mention.

But in all cases, anymore, it is only after all other options have failed. And true that with some kids it just doesn't work, period. In others though, it works perfectly in terms of behavior adjustment.

One of the problems, as you allude to, is that our society, anymore, in general, just doesn't have a "tough love" attitude. It reflects in the school system itself as concerns corporal punishment.

It might sound "archaic" and "cliche", but back when I was growing up, it was understood all across the board that if a kid disrrupted class or cussed the teacher, then they got a good spanking. And often just expelled. If not by the teacher, then by the principal. AND, if the parent heard about it? Then they got the same when they got home with their father/mother.

To assault a teacher -- which is ever more common in some locales -- was to commit metaphorical suicide. Back in a certain day and age, even the "toughest" guys wouldn't dream of fighting a teacher. They would drop out of school first. To say nothing of the fact the teacher would fight back and be allowed to. I know I sure as hell will...consequences be dammed...

But anyway, I can agree that today, paddling is not always effective, because parents are not responsible for their own kids, and many don't take the slightest interest in doing so. They want schools to do it for them. Yet raise unholy hell when their child gets suspended. Why? The essence is usually because it means their entitlement lifestyle might get interupted...

[TT Dave]

I think that Texas law should permit corporal punishment in schools. However, as already noted, most school districts have decided to no longer use it. When I was a young child I was in a small school district here in Texas that practiced corporal punishment on a daily basis. If you got into trouble with the teacher, you got your butt spanked immediately, outside the classroom in the hallway. There were zero behavioral issues in that school. We then moved to a larger city and larger school district. In those schools you got your butt spanked in the principal's office if you got into trouble with the teacher. For more serious offenses you were sent to a "isolation hall" type class where you were given assignments and weren't allowed to interact with any other students for a full day or days. They also used suspensions for the most severe problems. That system of discipline seemed to work fairly well overall. In my case, that discipline at school was reinforced at home by my parents. My father told me repeatedly, "Son, if you get into trouble in school you're going to be in twice the trouble when you get home"....and he backed that up. Sadly, these days most parents seem to not only be unwilling to back up corporal punishment in the schools, but also any other form of punishment in the schools. Many parents these days also refrain from providing disclipine at home. As a result, corporal punisment in the schools probably wouldn't work as well now as it did when I was a kid. I know a lot of teachers that are teaching right now and the sad fact is that most of them have little to no control over their classrooms. That's a very bad situation for all involved.

[ReppingDFW]

This is a tough one. I'm personally against Corporal Punishment, so I lean towards no. However, the "Yes, but only with parental permission" option does seem pretty convincing as well. That way I could opt my future children out and allow the option for those who support it.

[OpenD]

From all I've read, spankings are most effective when used very sparingly, for very serious infractions, and only when imposed immediately after the behavior you want to inhibit. In other words, spanking a child who just ran out into the street despite warnings is a measured and reasonable response to behavior that could get the child killed, because it's crucial to stop the behavior NOW.

"Wait til your father gets home" spankings, however, fail the immediacy test, and thus are more likely to increase aggressiveness than to actually change behavior.

And sorry to those who disagree, but anyone who has ever trained animals knows what I'm talking about. Unless you catch them in the act, punishing them does no good. They simply do not relate the two separate incidents.

And given that I think spanking should be a very rare event, and used only for extraordinary circumstances, I'd never want a stranger doing that to my child.

[Nairobi]

Originally Posted by OpenD

From all I've read, spankings are most effective when used very sparingly, for very serious infractions, and only when imposed immediately after the behavior you want to inhibit. In other words, spanking a child who just ran out into the street despite warnings is a measured and reasonable response to behavior that could get the child killed, because it's crucial to stop the behavior NOW.

"Wait til your father gets home" spankings, however, fail the immediacy test, and thus are more likely to increase aggressiveness than to actually change behavior.

And sorry to those who disagree, but anyone who has ever trained animals knows what I'm talking about. Unless you catch them in the act, punishing them does no good. They simply do not relate the two separate incidents.

And given that I think spanking should be a very rare event, and used only for extraordinary circumstances, I'd never want a stranger doing that to my child.

What about when mom makes you line up youngest to oldest?

In all seriousness, from my personal experience, the butt whoopings that I had to wait for seemed to be the most effective. The time I spent anticipating when they would go get the belt had me wishing that I had never done what I did, and 9 times out of 10, I was sure to never repeat that mistake.

And I'm not sure the animal analogy applies. A dog being punished three hours after he tracked mud through the house doesn't know why his owner is angry at him, but a child does know.

[goodtymes70]

It's impossible for the administrator of Corporal Punishment to know what's not enough and what's too much.....I have heard of school Principals being arrested and charged for Child Abuse and that's why there should be NO Corporal Punishment in school.

[blkgiraffe]

Originally Posted by Nairobi

What about when mom makes you line up youngest to oldest?

In all seriousness, from my personal experience, the butt whoopings that I had to wait for seemed to be the most effective. The time I spent anticipating when they would go get the belt had me wishing that I had never done what I did, and 9 times out of 10, I was sure to never repeat that mistake.

And I'm not sure the animal analogy applies. A dog being punished three hours after he tracked mud through the house doesn't know why his owner is angry at him, but a child does know.

Remember the times when you would act up in public and your momma would tell you "boy you gone get it when you get home!" LOL

The whole ride home you be on your best behavior and trying to play nice hoping they forget; my momma never forgot!

[TexasHorseLady]

If there are strict guidelines for such,

it is only allowed to be done with parental permission (which used to be the law in any case),

and the parent is notified if it is to occur (thus giving a cooling off period for any teacher who might be tempted to use it in the heat of anger - perhaps it should only be administered by an independent third party such as the principal, not the teacher who has determined it is needed - as it used to be when I was young),

then I don't see a problem with it.

[thenewtexan]

From what I have heard, it's pretty much just the rural districts that still allow it. Even still, there is a process to it. It's not as if teachers can just smack kids around at free will. I work with a guy who grew up in Blanket, TX (graduating class of '96 with 11 students), and paddling was allowed all through high school. He said it was basically a joke. Most took the paddling to alternative punishment because it was over faster than detenion, suspension from athletic teams, etc. He said it would have been tougher the other way around, and was basically ineffective. He looked at it this way, if you have a major screw up at your job, you lose it. No more income. That punishmet is way worse than getting a paddling from your boss, and getting back to work. Corporal punishment really does not prepare you for the real world.

I understand there are many good ol' boy, Bubba types here who disagree with me, but I do not see how the concept of a 16 year old girl getting a paddling on her buttocks from a middle aged man is beneficial to the educational experience. It's gross actually, and I cannot comprehend why any responsible parent in 2012 would allow it to happen to their kid.