Is East Texas culturally part of the Deep South? (best, counties)

[Nairobi]

I think people tend to overexaggerate how much "a part" of Northeast Texas Shreveport is. I think that area of lowlands roughly from Marshall to Shreveport is somewhat of it's own region, but I don't see Shreveport the same way I do Texarkana, Atlanta, Daingerfield, etc.

Shreveport isn't even as nice as NE Texas, if you ask me.

[KathrynAragon]

Originally Posted by TexasReb

As a whole state? I would competely agree Texas is not "Deep South." As neither are most of the states of the Old Confederacy. But when it comes to inter-state regions? East Texas fits the criteria. The large native black population, the plantation/cotton and antebellum culture, the Old South ambiance of the towns/small cities. It is MUCH more akin to north Louisiana, Mississippi, southern parts of Alabama and Georgia...than that of the Upper South (which had more of an impact on western Texas).

We'll just have to agree to disagree. Moving to East Texas from the Deep South, I can see, taste, and feel the differences.

[KathrynAragon]

Originally Posted by Nairobi

I think people tend to overexaggerate how much "a part" of Northeast Texas Shreveport is. I think that area of lowlands roughly from Marshall to Shreveport is somewhat of it's own region, but I don't see Shreveport the same way I do Texarkana, Atlanta, Daingerfield, etc.

Shreveport isn't even as nice as NE Texas, if you ask me.

I agree.

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by KathrynAragon

We'll just have to agree to disagree. Moving to East Texas from the Deep South, I can see, taste, and feel the differences.

Yes, we will (have to agree to disagree, that is). I was going to say that, in fact!

If there is any truly big difference between the far East Texas area and the rest of the "Deep South"? It is that East Texas is in Texas...and no question the proud autonomy of Texas history/culture has influence in that regard. So in that regard, yeah, I can see the point.

However, at the same time, (naturally this is only IMHO, but with solid backing), if Texas had ever divided itself into three - five states (as the Annexation Treaty with the United States allowed), and East Texas had been carved off to stand alone? Then it would easily have been considered a typical Deep South state. It had all the characteristics and history behind it.

In fact, East Texas (and again, this is all opinion, on both our parts...based upon our own research and conclusions via such), is -- as an interstate region -- more "Deep South" Southern in history and culture than far south Louisiana (French Catholic Cajun country) and far North Alabama and Georgia (more "Upper/Mountain South") than classic Lowland/Deep South. This even though all of those states are(rightfully) counted -- as a whole -- as Deep South.

Where did you live in East Texas, just out of curiosity?

[KathrynAragon]

Originally Posted by TexasReb

Yes, we will (have to agree to disagree, that is). I was going to say that, in fact!

If there is any truly big difference between the far East Texas area and the rest of the "Deep South"? It is that East Texas is in Texas...and no question the proud autonomy of Texas history/culture has influence in that regard. So in that regard, yeah, I can see the point.

However, at the same time, (naturally this is only IMHO, but with solid backing), if Texas had ever divided itself into three - five states (as the Annexation Treaty with the United States allowed), and East Texas had been carved off to stand alone? Then it would easily have been considered a typical Deep South state. It had all the characteristics and history behind it.

In fact, East Texas (and again, this is all opinion, on both our parts...based upon our own research and conclusions via such), is -- as an interstate region -- more "Deep South" Southern in history and culture than far south Louisiana (French Catholic Cajun country) and far North Alabama and Georgia (more "Upper/Mountain South") than classic Lowland/Deep South. This even though all of those states are(rightfully) counted -- as a whole -- as Deep South.

Where did you live in East Texas, just out of curiosity?

Between Tyler and Shreveport. I've also lived in Jacksonville - unfortunately. I much prefer the Tyler/Longview area to the Jacksonville/Rusk area.

[Nairobi]

Capturing The Spirit Of East Texas’s Wild Muscadine | My East Texas

[KathrynAragon]

Another fact that rather separates the ideology and attitudes of East Texas from the other Southern States is that Texas was an independent nation just a few years before the Civil War. Unlike the other states, it had it's own functioning army and navy prior to the Civil War. When it joined the Union, Texas was allowed to keep these institutions in place -as long as they did not outnumber the federal army and navy. It was never a "territory" of the United States. This did shape and continues to shape the attitudes of Texans.

It's the little things that make such differences. As I stated earlier, there are over 80 "Cowboy Churches" in EAST Texas (over 300 in all of Texas) - TRIPLE the number of all "Cowboy Churches" COMBINED in all the deep south states. Why is that? Because, though there are many similarities between East Texas and the Deep South - there are pronounced differences. East Texas has elements of Western and Southwest culture that are simply not a part of typical Deep South culture. These elements make Texas, well....DIFFERENT. Like for instance, VIRGINIA is different - definitely Southern, but not a part of the "Deep South."

And that's OK! Texas is a fine Southern state and actually, as a born and bred Deep South Southerner, I PREFER the atmosphere and culture of Texas over that of the other Southern states I've lived in (Louisiana, Alabama, Georgia, Virginia, North Carolina, Tennessee, Arkansas, and South Carolina).

None of us can prove or disprove the question of whether or not East Texas is part of the Deep South. We can only give our opinions. My family moved from the Deep South TO East Texas twenty five years ago. The differences were striking (and a topic of conversation) then - and are now, to my family and to friends who visit from the Deep South. All I can tell you is that others not from East Texas notice the differences.

[Nairobi]

Originally Posted by KathrynAragon

All I can tell you is that others not from East Texas notice the differences.

Hun, you don't speak for most or even all non-East Texans or non-Texans in general. Remember that I have friends in "higher places", too. I'm not trying to be harsh, but I tell it like it is.

And again, it's like you're saying that our opinions are "equal", yet suggesting that everyone else's here is simply misinformed, all in the same breath. We're just silly ol' Texans who haven't the slightest clue what we're really talking about. That's how you feel, so I wish that's what you'd say. You don't need to coddle us.

Weren't you done with this debate, though?

[soletaire]

As a born and bred deep south southerner from East Texas, I too can say that I much prefer the quirky history and culture of East Texas over other deep south states Ive been to.

[KathrynAragon]

Originally Posted by Nairobi

Hun, you don't speak for most or even all non-East Texans or non-Texans in general. Remember that I have friends in "higher places", too. I'm not trying to be harsh, but I tell it like it is.

And again, it's like you're saying that our opinions are "equal", yet suggesting that everyone else's here is simply misinformed, all in the same breath. We're just silly ol' Texans who haven't the slightest clue what we're really talking about. That's how you feel, so I wish that's what you'd say. You don't need to coddle us.

Weren't you done with this debate, though?

I took a break. Bless your heart for asking though.

And like I said, I never claimed to speak for all or even most East Texans or non Texans, so no need to shove words I didn't say into my mouth. I made it very clear that this debate is simply a MATTER OF PERSONAL OPINIONS -my own included - and can never truly be settled one way or the other - not by using facts anyway. Opinions - that's a different matter. It's clearly settled in both our minds based on our own opinions and personal experiences.