Better Pedestrian-Friendly Walkability/Activity - Houston or Dallas? (Fort Worth: air pollution, cars)

[Dallaz]

Originally Posted by kenshi

What a load of crap. The climate is what's sucking the life out of Downtown. The tunnels are the only chance at bringing a crowd there during the summer. What makes you think closing them is going to make people want to walk around in the 105 degree heat? Don't be absurd.



They're already only open during business hours on weekdays. What are you talking about?

They did it back then. What makes it so different now? My grandmother use to tell me how vibrant Downtown was. She told me about all the numerous stores Downtown had. The stores I remember her naming were H.L. Green Company (she told me people called it "the poor man's Neiman-Marcus" since it was across the street from it) Titche-Goettinger Department Store, Sanger-Harris Department Store, Cokesbury Books, Volk's Department Store, and Dreyfuss and Son Department Store. Let's not forget the theaters that lined Elm street. The only one left is the Majestic.

[kenshi]

Originally Posted by Dallaz

They did it back then. What makes it so different now?

They were a little rougher back then. Air conditioning wasn't very common in cars in the 60s. Lately, how many people have you seen driving around with their windows rolled down?

I can't imagine many people walking the streets in the heat of summer in the 21st century. Tunnels have worked well for Toronto. We should look at their example. Who really cares whether it's the exposed streets or the subterranean tunnels that have a lot of foot traffic? Leave the streets for cars. Put people where they feel comfortable.

If more interesting places were attached to the tunnels and they were open more hours, then Downtown would be a lot more popular. It'd certainly make me want to live there.

[Nairobi]

Originally Posted by kenshi

They were a little rougher back then. Air conditioning wasn't very common in cars in the 60s. Lately, how many people have you seen driving around with their windows rolled down?

I can't imagine many people walking the streets in the heat of summer in the 21st century. Tunnels have worked well for Toronto. We should look at their example. Who really cares whether it's the exposed streets or the subterranean tunnels that have a lot of foot traffic? Leave the streets for cars. Put people where they feel comfortable.

If more interesting places were attached to the tunnels and they were open more hours, then Downtown would be a lot more popular. It'd certainly make me want to live there.

At the end of that video, that guy had a point in saying that the tunnels should remain as part of the revitalization of downtown Dallas (and Houston, as well), but a vibrant downtown needs street level activity.

[Yokandyman]

Originally Posted by kenshi

What a load of crap. The climate is what's sucking the life out of Downtown. The tunnels are the only chance at bringing a crowd there during the summer. What makes you think closing them is going to make people want to walk around in the 105 degree heat? Don't be absurd.



They're already only open during business hours on weekdays. What are you talking about?

Did you read my passage correctly? And no...the tunnels will not bring a crowd there during the summer months. They've been there since the 80's. Have people been down there in them packing it out after rush hours and on weekends for activities and the like? Nope. Let's not act as if it's beaming sunshine at 105 degrees yearound in Dallas. Besides, people are out in West Village walking around during the summer in this weather all the time. So what is the difference here? The good thing is that if really does start to become crowded downtown with people, they can always reopen them 24/7 since they already in place.

[Metro Matt]

Originally Posted by Dallaz

Speaking of the Park, there's already a number of programs already planned for the park.


Picture of the Klyde Warren Park

Photo from the park's facebook page


http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...00341394_n.jpg

Its certainly refreshing to see Dallas finally starting to get a little green space & trees in its downtown area, somethings its been lacking for a long, long time.

Moderator cut: orphaned

[Metro Matt]

Originally Posted by Dallaz

They did it back then. What makes it so different now? My grandmother use to tell me how vibrant Downtown was. She told me about all the numerous stores Downtown had. The stores I remember her naming were H.L. Green Company (she told me people called it "the poor man's Neiman-Marcus" since it was across the street from it) Titche-Goettinger Department Store, Sanger-Harris Department Store, Cokesbury Books, Volk's Department Store, and Dreyfuss and Son Department Store. Let's not forget the theaters that lined Elm street. The only one left is the Majestic.

They also didn't have global warming & ozone air pollution warnings back when either.

Dallas was a small country town back then you have to understand, not the sprawling city of 1.2 mill. it is today.

[BigT3x]

Originally Posted by Yokandyman

The tunnel situation in Downtown Dallas will be something that's done in processes. The city doesn't see a need to keep them open 24/7 with the new push to encourage more pedestrian activity on the streets. The tunnels will still be open on weekdays, but closed at night and on the weekend according to a report that came out in April. The retail tenants operating in them are currently closing at like 3pm, because there is no reason to be open after your morning and lunch rushes, with most of the tunnels' access coming from the offices in large skyscrapers there. The city wants to push more street-level retail activity there, so tenants will have the option to either stay down in the tunnels (closing early) or come on out to the streets where everyone else is projected to be (and operate longer hours). The city is gonna play this situation by ear before it does anything too drastic. I'm betting that all retail will eventually come out of the tunnels, but the tunnels will remain open weekdays only during extreme seasons like summer and winter. We'll see.

Not really.

The closing of the Elm Place tunnels was drastic. It cut the tunnel system in half and forced people up to the street to get from one area to the other. The closing was required by the city for the developer to get any tax relief.

What you're describing has already been happening for decades. The city has realized what horrible urban design the tunnel thing is for a very long time now. We're now at the point where drastic action will begin to happen.

[kenshi]

Originally Posted by Yokandyman

Did you read my passage correctly? And no...the tunnels will not bring a crowd there during the summer months. They've been there since the 80's. Have people been down there in them packing it out after rush hours and on weekends for activities and the like? Nope.

How could they when the tunnels are closed after rush hour and on weekends? Plus, like I said, they need to connect to more interesting places. I've explored them pretty thoroughly and there just isn't much reason to go down there on the weekends. There are a few restaurants and convenience stores around Thanksgiving Tower (only open for very limited hours) and the Plaza of the Americas. Other than that, it only connects several office and residential buildings and parking garages. They should be connected to more interesting places like museums, bars, and good shopping and open every day of the week. That'll help out Downtown.

Besides, if they're hardly being used like you say, how are they reducing foot traffic on the streets?

[Metro Matt]

Dallas tunnels

http://wiki-images.enotes.com/d/df/D...ianNetwork.jpg

Houston tunnels

http://www.downtownhouston.com/image...ouston_map.jpg

[dallasboi]

Originally Posted by Metro Matt

Dallas tunnels



Houston tunnels

Uh...Houstons tunnel system is just a smidge larger than Dallas'...Honestly I was expecting a system that covered the entire DT Houston.